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The problem with that idea is that even if the human labor is absurdly cheap, that doesn't make it good. Would you want a car built by hand, or a car built by

by Arizhel 10y ago

The problem with that idea is that even if the human labor is absurdly cheap, that doesn't make it good. Would you want a car built by hand, or a car built by robots? The latter is going to be better built and have fewer defects. Many jobs can't even be done decently by humans (think of modern cellphone circuitry assembly).

MrBuddyCasino 10y ago
And yet Toyota relies on people more than any other car maker and at the same time leads the reliability statistics.
- prvnsmpth 10y ago
  That might be the case now, but who's to say that won't change in the future? What will happen when robotics and computer vision advances to a point where employing a human on an assembly line doesn't make economic sense?
- Arizhel 10y ago
  Relies on people how? Citation? Any modern car is going to have an enormous amount of robotic assembly involved. Having humans can give you more flexibility (robots take time to set up), but expose you to more quality problems because they're inconsistent. But many things just can't be done that well by humans.
visarga 10y ago
> Would you want a car built by hand, or a car built by robots? The latter is going to be better built and have fewer defects My first two cars, bought in 1997 and 1999 were pretty prone to breaking and costing a lot of money and time to fix. But the car I bought in 2005 was different. I checked around, and it would seem all brands have suddenly become very fiable. I suppose the factory switched from manual to automated production.
- Arizhel 10y ago
  No, I don't think so. Somewhere else in this discussion, someone posted a picture of a modern car factory: https://outline-prod.imgix.net/20170323-c86vRGKVPsbek3PZXpVw?auto=format&q=60&w=2000&s=7fa68cbcc86ded1ab56b65ad74700aa9 https://outline-prod.imgix.net/20170323-c86vRGKVPsbek3PZXpVw... Someone else responded with a picture of a car factory in 1984: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--OKTGFiUc--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18to91b6najv6jpg.jpg https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--OKTGFiU... They've had automated production in car factories for a long time. And it's not an either-or thing; just like robots were only used for certain jobs back in 1984, and other stuff was done by humans, it's still like that (though probably more stuff is done robotically). Some tasks are just easier to have humans do, or not worth the expense of a robot (and the set-up, jigs, etc. needed for the robot). Did you buy a different brand car in 2005 than the 97 and 99 cars? Different brands are different. Even within the same brand, there have been improvements over time (and also regressions). Designs have changed; maybe that company focused more on designing for serviceability between those times. Design has little to do with automated vs. manual production. There's nothing stopping you from designing a car to be assembled by hand (like a small production-run handbuilt exotic), and designing it to be easy to change the oil on.
dredmorbius 10y ago
Bingo, this. It also depends on what exactly it is that a given country is arbitraging. I've been considering China for a few years as not selling its labour or resources but its sinks: the willingness of the country to pollute its air, water, and land, in building up wealth and/or capital. Other opportunities might be space, shipping access, or the ability to bulldoze through any competing property claims. In that case, say, bulldozing a slum in Mumbai to throw up a frabrication plant that can import raw materials and export finished goods from a factory with a very low labour footprint ... could make sense. I'm not saying it does, but if you're going to bring automation to a place such as India, then you'd look for a dynamic like that: high-quality or low-tolerance manufacturing, probably dirty, with a high transport need, for which the ability to secure seaport-adjacent property with minimal fuss would be expedient.

by Arizhel 10y ago

MrBuddyCasino 10y ago

And yet Toyota relies on people more than any other car maker and at the same time leads the reliability statistics.

prvnsmpth 10y ago
That might be the case now, but who's to say that won't change in the future? What will happen when robotics and computer vision advances to a point where employing a human on an assembly line doesn't make economic sense?
Arizhel 10y ago
Relies on people how? Citation? Any modern car is going to have an enormous amount of robotic assembly involved. Having humans can give you more flexibility (robots take time to set up), but expose you to more quality problems because they're inconsistent. But many things just can't be done that well by humans.

visarga 10y ago

> Would you want a car built by hand, or a car built by robots? The latter is going to be better built and have fewer defects My first two cars, bought in 1997 and 1999 were pretty prone to breaking and costing a lot of money and time to fix. But the car I bought in 2005 was different. I checked around, and it would seem all brands have suddenly become very fiable. I suppose the factory switched from manual to automated production.

Arizhel 10y ago
No, I don't think so. Somewhere else in this discussion, someone posted a picture of a modern car factory: https://outline-prod.imgix.net/20170323-c86vRGKVPsbek3PZXpVw?auto=format&q=60&w=2000&s=7fa68cbcc86ded1ab56b65ad74700aa9 https://outline-prod.imgix.net/20170323-c86vRGKVPsbek3PZXpVw... Someone else responded with a picture of a car factory in 1984: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--OKTGFiUc--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18to91b6najv6jpg.jpg https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--OKTGFiU... They've had automated production in car factories for a long time. And it's not an either-or thing; just like robots were only used for certain jobs back in 1984, and other stuff was done by humans, it's still like that (though probably more stuff is done robotically). Some tasks are just easier to have humans do, or not worth the expense of a robot (and the set-up, jigs, etc. needed for the robot). Did you buy a different brand car in 2005 than the 97 and 99 cars? Different brands are different. Even within the same brand, there have been improvements over time (and also regressions). Designs have changed; maybe that company focused more on designing for serviceability between those times. Design has little to do with automated vs. manual production. There's nothing stopping you from designing a car to be assembled by hand (like a small production-run handbuilt exotic), and designing it to be easy to change the oil on.

dredmorbius 10y ago

Bingo, this. It also depends on what exactly it is that a given country is arbitraging. I've been considering China for a few years as not selling its labour or resources but its sinks: the willingness of the country to pollute its air, water, and land, in building up wealth and/or capital. Other opportunities might be space, shipping access, or the ability to bulldoze through any competing property claims. In that case, say, bulldozing a slum in Mumbai to throw up a frabrication plant that can import raw materials and export finished goods from a factory with a very low labour footprint ... could make sense. I'm not saying it does, but if you're going to bring automation to a place such as India, then you'd look for a dynamic like that: high-quality or low-tolerance manufacturing, probably dirty, with a high transport need, for which the ability to secure seaport-adjacent property with minimal fuss would be expedient.