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> People are being prodded to give up their sovereignty to a supra-national bureaucracy, and to be assimilated into a hetrogenous body politic with hundreds of

by cJ0th 10y ago

> People are being prodded to give up their sovereignty to a supra-national bureaucracy, and to be assimilated into a hetrogenous body politic with hundreds of millions of other people with which they share little other than said bureaucracy. It's just not true. People of the European continent have been mingling with each other for about 2000 years. The whole continent's juristic thinking roots in the Roman Empire, so do Romance languages (like Spanish and French). What's more, in the past various countries formed alliances to protect themselves against threats from the orient. There even have been "economic zones" like the Hansa which could be understood as a predecessor of the EU and so on. In short: EU countries do have a lot in common and these commonalities are part of national identities. Countries do also feature peculiarities and these may or may not decay (thanks to the EU). But change is inevitable anyhow.

LoSboccacc 10y ago
countries have many element in common, but the eu as organization has given the middle fingers to those values putting economic interests of few above all else. i.e. why do Italians have milk quotas, spain has orange quotas, but germany has not car quotas? the general feeling is that few are getting the advantages of the free market and many are taking the piss. on the other hand where's the democracy in the Dublin III agrement? 15 or so states voted to screw the three southern states, of course those kind of provisions gets passed, the majority gets an advantage, but the minority of states having to bear the weight will breed resentement for years to come. and to add insult to perjury now that migrants have forced their way to the other countries they want to renegotiate migrant quotas this is not the europe that was sold on us, and if it were to be an italeave I'd vote yes in a heartbeat
- Panoramix 10y ago
  I think you are confused. The quotas (which are EU-wide) are there to protect farmers. By limiting the production there is no surplus (there used to be extraordinary surpluses) and therefore the prices are guaranteed not to drop or fluctuate too much. This also prevents monopolies from dominating the market. Particularly benefited are Italians, who would have a hard time competing against milk powerhouses in Germany. As for cars, they are decidedly different products than food.
presidente20 10y ago
Clearly Europe has been highly intermingled throughout its history and shares some common roots but that is not what we're talking about here. We're not talking about alliances (which happen all the time without political union) or trade areas (which the EU originally was) we're talking about supra-national centralised bureaucracy. Change is inevitable and it's healthy to have multiple self governed states doing things differently from each other and co-operating from time to time.

by cJ0th 10y ago

LoSboccacc 10y ago

countries have many element in common, but the eu as organization has given the middle fingers to those values putting economic interests of few above all else. i.e. why do Italians have milk quotas, spain has orange quotas, but germany has not car quotas? the general feeling is that few are getting the advantages of the free market and many are taking the piss. on the other hand where's the democracy in the Dublin III agrement? 15 or so states voted to screw the three southern states, of course those kind of provisions gets passed, the majority gets an advantage, but the minority of states having to bear the weight will breed resentement for years to come. and to add insult to perjury now that migrants have forced their way to the other countries they want to renegotiate migrant quotas this is not the europe that was sold on us, and if it were to be an italeave I'd vote yes in a heartbeat

Panoramix 10y ago
I think you are confused. The quotas (which are EU-wide) are there to protect farmers. By limiting the production there is no surplus (there used to be extraordinary surpluses) and therefore the prices are guaranteed not to drop or fluctuate too much. This also prevents monopolies from dominating the market. Particularly benefited are Italians, who would have a hard time competing against milk powerhouses in Germany. As for cars, they are decidedly different products than food.

presidente20 10y ago

Clearly Europe has been highly intermingled throughout its history and shares some common roots but that is not what we're talking about here. We're not talking about alliances (which happen all the time without political union) or trade areas (which the EU originally was) we're talking about supra-national centralised bureaucracy. Change is inevitable and it's healthy to have multiple self governed states doing things differently from each other and co-operating from time to time.