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The Unions in Germany are considered to be very strong. This works well in companies where managers don't have a lot of imagination and who's first reaction is

The Unions in Germany are considered to be very strong. This works well in companies where managers don't have a lot of imagination and who's first reaction is to fire staff when the going gets tough. For example VW wanted to cut 3000 workers. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-redundancies-idUSKCN0WC21Y http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-redundancies-id... After talks with the Union they rescinded somewhat and now the losses will be through attrition. i.e. wait for people to retire or leave. It doesn't surprise me that Audi want to keep what may be seen as a growing product in Germany.

masklinn 10y ago
> This works well in companies where managers don't have a lot of imagination and who's first reaction is to fire staff when the going gets tough. Not really that's US-style or French-style management and the result is hard clashes between labour and management.
- johnchristopher 10y ago
  But aren't US and French unions considered weak compared to Germany ? That would make the stance correct.
  - masklinn 10y ago
    Companies and unions are in a prisoner's dilemma, the german/nordic model works because both parties cooperate, historically US or French companies have not been cooperative (many a US labor movement or union was put down by private armies — pinkerton was a big one — or even the US army). If the union cooperates with an uncooperative company it just gets rolled over, if the union is combative it works better (until the union falls below the level of strength which lets them balance the company). Look no further than Amazon in Germany for a demonstration.
    - caminante 10y ago
      Germany has a lot of govt. financed/controlled businesses. Lower Saxony (German state) has 20% voting control of Volkswagen, Audi's parent company. There are also anti-takeover restrictions such as shareholder ownership caps.
      - cmarschner 10y ago
        >Germany has a lot of govt. financed/controlled businesses. Examples, apart from VW and Deutsche Bahn? After privatization of the Kohl era there shouldn't be much left. When I was a kid I even drank milk from a state-owned dairy plant.
        caminante 10y ago
        Here you go! [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprise#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprise#Germany
        cmarschner 10y ago
        That doesn't seem to be excessive? I find it a pretty short list of names that are just quite highly visible. It's mostly enterprises that provide some form of public good (infrastructure).
        caminante 10y ago
        It's not an exhaustive list. At that, IMHO, it's too general to say these firms (sampled) produce public goods (i.e. nonrivalrous and nonexcludable). For example, I don't get the benefits from intermodal shipping via Hapag-Lloyd without paying.
  - Dalex0 10y ago
    In my university days the statistics showed that a lot of more strikes happen in France and USA compared to Germany. Theory was that the German model had more build in mechanism to deescalate problems between booth parties regulated by law. From my perspective the unions are really weak these days.
    - pizzetta 10y ago
      IIRC, Japan also has more cooperative unions where Unions and businesses seek the long term viability of a company as well as worker welfare, even when that results in people idling at the windows.
  - pg314 10y ago
    I wouldn't call french unions weak. They are quite famous for their strikes. Here's an Economist blog post about them: http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/03/economist-explains-15 http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/03/ec...
    - johnchristopher 10y ago
      Hmm. I live in Belgium and I believe being famous for their strikes isn't a good indicator of their real weight. Media and journalists makes much more noise covering the strikes than strikers actually do.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
bingomad123 10y ago
Given the Union's intimidation and blackmail it makes so much business sense for Audi to move out of Germany to other places in Europe and elsewhere.

masklinn 10y ago

> This works well in companies where managers don't have a lot of imagination and who's first reaction is to fire staff when the going gets tough. Not really that's US-style or French-style management and the result is hard clashes between labour and management.

johnchristopher 10y ago
But aren't US and French unions considered weak compared to Germany ? That would make the stance correct.
- masklinn 10y ago
  Companies and unions are in a prisoner's dilemma, the german/nordic model works because both parties cooperate, historically US or French companies have not been cooperative (many a US labor movement or union was put down by private armies — pinkerton was a big one — or even the US army). If the union cooperates with an uncooperative company it just gets rolled over, if the union is combative it works better (until the union falls below the level of strength which lets them balance the company). Look no further than Amazon in Germany for a demonstration.
  - caminante 10y ago
    Germany has a lot of govt. financed/controlled businesses. Lower Saxony (German state) has 20% voting control of Volkswagen, Audi's parent company. There are also anti-takeover restrictions such as shareholder ownership caps.
    - cmarschner 10y ago
      >Germany has a lot of govt. financed/controlled businesses. Examples, apart from VW and Deutsche Bahn? After privatization of the Kohl era there shouldn't be much left. When I was a kid I even drank milk from a state-owned dairy plant.
      - caminante 10y ago
        Here you go! [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprise#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprise#Germany
        cmarschner 10y ago
        That doesn't seem to be excessive? I find it a pretty short list of names that are just quite highly visible. It's mostly enterprises that provide some form of public good (infrastructure).
        caminante 10y ago
        It's not an exhaustive list. At that, IMHO, it's too general to say these firms (sampled) produce public goods (i.e. nonrivalrous and nonexcludable). For example, I don't get the benefits from intermodal shipping via Hapag-Lloyd without paying.
- Dalex0 10y ago
  In my university days the statistics showed that a lot of more strikes happen in France and USA compared to Germany. Theory was that the German model had more build in mechanism to deescalate problems between booth parties regulated by law. From my perspective the unions are really weak these days.
  - pizzetta 10y ago
    IIRC, Japan also has more cooperative unions where Unions and businesses seek the long term viability of a company as well as worker welfare, even when that results in people idling at the windows.
- pg314 10y ago
  I wouldn't call french unions weak. They are quite famous for their strikes. Here's an Economist blog post about them: http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/03/economist-explains-15 http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/03/ec...
  - johnchristopher 10y ago
    Hmm. I live in Belgium and I believe being famous for their strikes isn't a good indicator of their real weight. Media and journalists makes much more noise covering the strikes than strikers actually do.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

bingomad123 10y ago

Given the Union's intimidation and blackmail it makes so much business sense for Audi to move out of Germany to other places in Europe and elsewhere.