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why is China so large in the voter turnout map? I realize I actually know very little about the political process in China are there regular elections there?

by pitt1980 10y ago

why is China so large in the voter turnout map? I realize I actually know very little about the political process in China are there regular elections there? what are they voting on? I perceive that you're not voting for any politicians from opposition parties to the official communist party, am I wrong? are you voting on who gets to control the party apparatus within the communist party? who is that vote actually open to?

jbob2000 10y ago
They elect congress members, but there's only one party. There's more than a billion people in China. If 10% of them turn out to vote, then that's already more than the turnout for the 2016 presidential election.
- malloc33 10y ago
  Interesting perspective!
- pitt1980 10y ago
  what does it take to become a congressional candidate? Do you need party approval? How wide is the Overton Window that a candidate can exist in?
slurry 10y ago
Local people's congresses are directly elected. Higher levels up to the National People's Congress, are indirectly elected by the level below. So imagine you vote for town council. The town councils in your county elect a county council, the county councils elect a state legislature, and the state legislatures elect Congress. Elections for local people's congress are - for China - fairly open. There are 50-100% more candidates than seats. But candidates are in practice only nominated by the CP and related organizations. But the point is, you can choose between a couple of alternative CP picks, rather than having a single CP pick imposed upon you. A little bit like elections in Iran, I guess. That's not wide open elections like in the West, but it's not nothing. Elections are more centrally controlled the higher up in the hierarchy you go, but there is always some wiggle room.
mikeash 10y ago
I thought this made for a really good example of how cartograms could be incredibly misleading depending on the underlying data you pick. If you didn't know what was going on, you'd probably look at that map and think, wow, China is so democratic! But of course it's a one-party system and people are only voting for limited choices within that party at a very low level, so, not so much. I also can't tell if the map is supposed to illustrate turnout as a percentage or as an absolute number. The wording ("Territory size shows the estimated proportion of all people who voted in elections between 1945 and 1998 who voted there.") suggests the former, but the actual sizes on the map appear to be the latter, which makes it nearly indistinguishable from the population cartogram: http://worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=2 http://worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=2

jbob2000 10y ago

They elect congress members, but there's only one party. There's more than a billion people in China. If 10% of them turn out to vote, then that's already more than the turnout for the 2016 presidential election.

malloc33 10y ago
Interesting perspective!
pitt1980 10y ago
what does it take to become a congressional candidate? Do you need party approval? How wide is the Overton Window that a candidate can exist in?

slurry 10y ago

Local people's congresses are directly elected. Higher levels up to the National People's Congress, are indirectly elected by the level below. So imagine you vote for town council. The town councils in your county elect a county council, the county councils elect a state legislature, and the state legislatures elect Congress. Elections for local people's congress are - for China - fairly open. There are 50-100% more candidates than seats. But candidates are in practice only nominated by the CP and related organizations. But the point is, you can choose between a couple of alternative CP picks, rather than having a single CP pick imposed upon you. A little bit like elections in Iran, I guess. That's not wide open elections like in the West, but it's not nothing. Elections are more centrally controlled the higher up in the hierarchy you go, but there is always some wiggle room.

mikeash 10y ago

I thought this made for a really good example of how cartograms could be incredibly misleading depending on the underlying data you pick. If you didn't know what was going on, you'd probably look at that map and think, wow, China is so democratic! But of course it's a one-party system and people are only voting for limited choices within that party at a very low level, so, not so much. I also can't tell if the map is supposed to illustrate turnout as a percentage or as an absolute number. The wording ("Territory size shows the estimated proportion of all people who voted in elections between 1945 and 1998 who voted there.") suggests the former, but the actual sizes on the map appear to be the latter, which makes it nearly indistinguishable from the population cartogram: http://worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=2 http://worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=2