3 ms·

Real soon now... Seriously, thanks for the encouragement. I'm really hoping the latest version will be good enough to share at long last.

dustingetz 10y ago
Hi Jonathan, "Subtext 3 and 4 were successive experiments in a new semantics of mutable state I describe as synchronously updateable views." What does this mean? Is Chorus a database? edit: the answer from his paper: "Typical applications are built from at least three distinct technology stacks: a database, a programming language, and a UI framework. Each of these technologies has its own semantics, and much of the complexity of application programming stems from the need to glue them together. Chorus instead provides a single unified model built upon our prior work on Subtext (Edwards 2004-2014). Our statically typed tree structures are effectively databases: the types are schemas, collections serve as tables, and references serve as relationships. All data is persistent, and all execution is performed in concurrent transactions."
- tluyben2 10y ago
  I think there are videos and code for Subtext (or an earlier version of Subtext) ; I would recommend you watch all videos by Jonathan; they are good.
  - teleclimber 10y ago
    I found https://vimeo.com/jonathoda https://vimeo.com/jonathoda Do you know of others?
    - tluyben2 10y ago
      Check out this page; http://www.subtext-lang.org/ http://www.subtext-lang.org/ Together with Brett Victor his Inventing on Principle, I usually show this https://vimeo.com/140738254 https://vimeo.com/140738254 to people when explaining my daily existence and the unfairness of it (as in; some of us have these ideas and yet, my CPU cores + memory are overloaded doing trivial db queries to do code completion and rendering HTML because that is what we write GUI's including code editors in now :).
      - teleclimber 10y ago
        I sympathize with the frustration! It's debilitating to know that there is a better way to program something yet you can't use it because it hasn't been implemented yet. I mitigate the pain by spending some time every week working on my own ideas of how computers / programming should work. Some of these ideas are very similar (at first glance) to subtext / chorus. I knew I couldn't be the only one thinking like that.
        jonathanedwards 10y ago
        Keep working on your ideas and try to communicate them to others. If we all refuse to give up someday we will make programming not suck.
        tluyben2 10y ago
        I love programming with computers still (and have so for the past 34 years); the ideas set forward in these videos and implementations do give the feeling we might get somewhere. I myself only write tools for specific projects. I hope I get a chance of distilling something more generic from that some day but that might be simply too hard. As for Alarming Development, I much liked Subtext & Coherence (where did that site go? [0]); from what I have seen Chorus is a more high level approach and very curious to try that out even though we have not seen much yet. [0] https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20130810132017/coherence-lang.org https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20130810132017/coherence-la...
tluyben2 10y ago
I am a fan; I am very happy people make the time to do this kind of research. Looking forward to testing!

dustingetz 10y ago

Hi Jonathan, "Subtext 3 and 4 were successive experiments in a new semantics of mutable state I describe as synchronously updateable views." What does this mean? Is Chorus a database? edit: the answer from his paper: "Typical applications are built from at least three distinct technology stacks: a database, a programming language, and a UI framework. Each of these technologies has its own semantics, and much of the complexity of application programming stems from the need to glue them together. Chorus instead provides a single unified model built upon our prior work on Subtext (Edwards 2004-2014). Our statically typed tree structures are effectively databases: the types are schemas, collections serve as tables, and references serve as relationships. All data is persistent, and all execution is performed in concurrent transactions."

tluyben2 10y ago
I think there are videos and code for Subtext (or an earlier version of Subtext) ; I would recommend you watch all videos by Jonathan; they are good.
- teleclimber 10y ago
  I found https://vimeo.com/jonathoda https://vimeo.com/jonathoda Do you know of others?
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    Check out this page; http://www.subtext-lang.org/ http://www.subtext-lang.org/ Together with Brett Victor his Inventing on Principle, I usually show this https://vimeo.com/140738254 https://vimeo.com/140738254 to people when explaining my daily existence and the unfairness of it (as in; some of us have these ideas and yet, my CPU cores + memory are overloaded doing trivial db queries to do code completion and rendering HTML because that is what we write GUI's including code editors in now :).
    - teleclimber 10y ago
      I sympathize with the frustration! It's debilitating to know that there is a better way to program something yet you can't use it because it hasn't been implemented yet. I mitigate the pain by spending some time every week working on my own ideas of how computers / programming should work. Some of these ideas are very similar (at first glance) to subtext / chorus. I knew I couldn't be the only one thinking like that.
      - jonathanedwards 10y ago
        Keep working on your ideas and try to communicate them to others. If we all refuse to give up someday we will make programming not suck.
      - tluyben2 10y ago
        I love programming with computers still (and have so for the past 34 years); the ideas set forward in these videos and implementations do give the feeling we might get somewhere. I myself only write tools for specific projects. I hope I get a chance of distilling something more generic from that some day but that might be simply too hard. As for Alarming Development, I much liked Subtext & Coherence (where did that site go? [0]); from what I have seen Chorus is a more high level approach and very curious to try that out even though we have not seen much yet. [0] https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20130810132017/coherence-lang.org https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20130810132017/coherence-la...

tluyben2 10y ago

I am a fan; I am very happy people make the time to do this kind of research. Looking forward to testing!