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I don't think these types of stories are scaring off anybody since we've been reading about App Store rejections for the last two years and it seems that compan

by Timmy_C 16y ago

I don't think these types of stories are scaring off anybody since we've been reading about App Store rejections for the last two years and it seems that companies and developers continue to want to make apps for iPad/iPod/iPhone. It sounds to me like these developers didn't read the app store guidelines. Don't make apps that do what Apple devices can already do natively. They made an app that was too much like a desktop and got rejected. That seems entirely reasonable.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
blhack 16y ago
>They made an app that was too much like a desktop and got rejected. That seems entirely reasonable. You're not serious, are you. If so, :(.
alex_c 16y ago
Trying hard not to downvote just because I disagree so strongly, I don't even know if it's possible to find some common ground for discussion. It sounds to me like these developers didn't read the app store guidelines. I'm getting really sick of that defense for Apple. How exactly do you logically go from "Don't make apps that do what Apple devices can already do natively" to "Thou shalt not make a cool picture frame app"? Yes, it's entirely the app developers' fault, and Apple can never be mistaken. The allmighty App Store Guidelines CLEARLY spell out for developers what they can and cannot do. They are immutable, all-encompassing, never vague, and impossible to misinterpret. If only developers would READ, we would never see any of these stories. Argh. (Have I just been trolled? On HN?)
- Timmy_C 16y ago
  I'll concede that there may be a jump in logic. And it is upsetting that a developer that plays by the rules gets denied for some unforeseeable reason. But I am tired of reading the same Apple is screwing the developers story. Why so much negativity in this thread?
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    Its all reflected from Apple, who is torpedoing folks' sales capriciously.
- dieterrams 16y ago
  > How exactly do you logically go from "Don't make apps that do what Apple devices can already do natively" to "Thou shalt not make a cool picture frame app"? When you make your picture frame app look like a desktop. I feel sorry for the guys, because it was certainly unintended. The path they took to adding value to their picture frame app unfortunately shifted the gestalt from picture frame to desktop, and when you're moving in that direction, you might fail to notice the shift. But it is entirely reasonable for Apple to disallow apps that can confuse the UI hierarchy for the user. Obviously, none of us on this site are going to be confused by it, but they have to take a much broader demographic of users into account.
  - alex_c 16y ago
    >When you make your picture frame app look like a desktop. Can you actually point me to anything in the existing developer agreements or interface guidelines that disallows this? I just looked, and I haven't been able to find anything - but it's not exactly hard to miss something.
    - dieterrams 16y ago
      From the iPhone Human Interface Guidelines - Creating a Great User Interface: "As you design your application, be aware of the metaphors that exist in iPhone OS and don't redefine them." I wasn't aware of this specific guideline/rule until just now, having looked for it in response to your question. But I do think it's an easily intuited rule, given a basic understanding of usability. Still, I don't think these guys knowingly violated the rule. It's a weird case. Even while I think it's reasonable for Apple to reject the app on these grounds, they could certainly do a better job clarifying how rules are applied and reduce developer risk. The most effective way would just be to maintain a listing of all rejections and the rationale behind them.
      - alex_c 16y ago
        I just don't see it. If I sat down today to make an app like this, and read the sentence you quoted, it wouldn't even cross my mind that I might get in trouble. What is the existing metaphor for "picture frame that shows the time, weather, and some other useful info"? For that matter, where does it say anything about desktops? It's about as useful as a Rorschach test, or staring at the clouds to understand the shape of Apple's intentions. Yes, again, Apple's platform means Apple's rules - developers have little to no bargaining power. I just don't want to pretend that the rules aren't completely unpredictable at times. Edit: I've run afoul of HIG violations before - it's usually relatively minor stuff that can be fixed and should get approved once it's resubmitted. Even "redefining a metaphor" can usually be fixed by changing to more standard controls. It doesn't sound like there's any UI change these guys can make to their app to make it acceptable.
DougBTX 16y ago
It sounds to me like these developers didn't read the app store guidelines. The app was accepted, and for sale in the store, and only then did it get pulled - so says the article. Not even the unnamed app store reviewers spotted that this app went against the guidlines.

by Timmy_C 16y ago

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

blhack 16y ago

>They made an app that was too much like a desktop and got rejected. That seems entirely reasonable. You're not serious, are you. If so, :(.

alex_c 16y ago

Trying hard not to downvote just because I disagree so strongly, I don't even know if it's possible to find some common ground for discussion. It sounds to me like these developers didn't read the app store guidelines. I'm getting really sick of that defense for Apple. How exactly do you logically go from "Don't make apps that do what Apple devices can already do natively" to "Thou shalt not make a cool picture frame app"? Yes, it's entirely the app developers' fault, and Apple can never be mistaken. The allmighty App Store Guidelines CLEARLY spell out for developers what they can and cannot do. They are immutable, all-encompassing, never vague, and impossible to misinterpret. If only developers would READ, we would never see any of these stories. Argh. (Have I just been trolled? On HN?)

Timmy_C 16y ago
I'll concede that there may be a jump in logic. And it is upsetting that a developer that plays by the rules gets denied for some unforeseeable reason. But I am tired of reading the same Apple is screwing the developers story. Why so much negativity in this thread?
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  Its all reflected from Apple, who is torpedoing folks' sales capriciously.
dieterrams 16y ago
> How exactly do you logically go from "Don't make apps that do what Apple devices can already do natively" to "Thou shalt not make a cool picture frame app"? When you make your picture frame app look like a desktop. I feel sorry for the guys, because it was certainly unintended. The path they took to adding value to their picture frame app unfortunately shifted the gestalt from picture frame to desktop, and when you're moving in that direction, you might fail to notice the shift. But it is entirely reasonable for Apple to disallow apps that can confuse the UI hierarchy for the user. Obviously, none of us on this site are going to be confused by it, but they have to take a much broader demographic of users into account.
- alex_c 16y ago
  >When you make your picture frame app look like a desktop. Can you actually point me to anything in the existing developer agreements or interface guidelines that disallows this? I just looked, and I haven't been able to find anything - but it's not exactly hard to miss something.
  - dieterrams 16y ago
    From the iPhone Human Interface Guidelines - Creating a Great User Interface: "As you design your application, be aware of the metaphors that exist in iPhone OS and don't redefine them." I wasn't aware of this specific guideline/rule until just now, having looked for it in response to your question. But I do think it's an easily intuited rule, given a basic understanding of usability. Still, I don't think these guys knowingly violated the rule. It's a weird case. Even while I think it's reasonable for Apple to reject the app on these grounds, they could certainly do a better job clarifying how rules are applied and reduce developer risk. The most effective way would just be to maintain a listing of all rejections and the rationale behind them.
    - alex_c 16y ago
      I just don't see it. If I sat down today to make an app like this, and read the sentence you quoted, it wouldn't even cross my mind that I might get in trouble. What is the existing metaphor for "picture frame that shows the time, weather, and some other useful info"? For that matter, where does it say anything about desktops? It's about as useful as a Rorschach test, or staring at the clouds to understand the shape of Apple's intentions. Yes, again, Apple's platform means Apple's rules - developers have little to no bargaining power. I just don't want to pretend that the rules aren't completely unpredictable at times. Edit: I've run afoul of HIG violations before - it's usually relatively minor stuff that can be fixed and should get approved once it's resubmitted. Even "redefining a metaphor" can usually be fixed by changing to more standard controls. It doesn't sound like there's any UI change these guys can make to their app to make it acceptable.

DougBTX 16y ago

It sounds to me like these developers didn't read the app store guidelines. The app was accepted, and for sale in the store, and only then did it get pulled - so says the article. Not even the unnamed app store reviewers spotted that this app went against the guidlines.