4 ms·

I've been looking a lot for a nice 84 keys mechanical keyboard, but it seems to be a not so popular layout. This looks exactly the layout I'm using on my cheap

by tutuca 10y ago

I've been looking a lot for a nice 84 keys mechanical keyboard, but it seems to be a not so popular layout. This looks exactly the layout I'm using on my cheap genius luxemate. But a little bit over the top :)

fizixer 10y ago
I'm in the market for a full size mech but I'm disgusted by what I'm finding. Either all kinds of fancy nonsense like backlights, shitty fonts, shitty ergonomic shapes, shitty colors. Or. Insanely outrageous prices (and the accompanying hipster elitism). An amazon basics non-mech costs under $15. A mech shouldn't cost more than $30, and yet you can't find one even at $70. (Mayby Amazon basics should offer one, I'll buy it right away).
- ChuckMcM 10y ago
  The market is working against you. Since the market for mechanical keyboards is small, the number of mechanical switches that are sold less, so manufacturing overhead is spread over fewer switches and you end up paying more for them. In the US at least you can still find the older IBM PC and IBM PC/AT keyboards at thrift shops and swap meets. They range in price from $1 to $100. And you'll want to find a way of adapting the interface to your computer (easy if its PS/2, a bit harder if its the old AT round connector). I'm typing this on the Cooler Master Masterkeys Pro S, its a full size mechanical but it leaves off the number pad (which I don't use) but keeps the arrow keys and edit cluster (which I do). It is backlit but generally I just leave it on a low backlight. I've got a hack that blinks the F11 key when a meeting is coming up. Like you said it was $125 but I expect to use it for at least 5 years so $25/year isn't particularly bad given that non-mechanical keyboards last me 18 months if I'm lucky. My previous daily driver was a full sized Thinkpad mechanical from the 90's with a track pad in it. After 20 years it started missing keys, and its huge, and I started losing keystrokes.
  - fizixer 10y ago
    I sat on your response for a while but it just occurred to me, as I responded to the other commenter, I'm perfectly fine with the price points of chinese knockoffs on ebay, alibaba, ali-express, etc. But they put on too much fancy bells and whistles. Removing them doesn't cost them a dime (probably will save them on the cost per keyboard).
- jdietrich 10y ago
  >A mech shouldn't cost more than $30 You can't buy a set of switches for that. Building a mechanical keyboard is inherently expensive, before you even get into economies of scale. Adjusted for inflation, mechanical keyboards are far cheaper than they used to be. The amortized cost of a quality keyboard is tiny, because it will have a lifespan measured in decades rather than years. There are tons of non-hipster keyboards available. Filco, Leopold and Cherry have been around since well before the current trend. Unicomp still make buckling-spring keyboards based on the old IBM designs.
- intrasight 10y ago
  I'm typing this on a 1984 IBM Model "M" plugged into USB via PS/2 to USB converter. I have bought several on eBay - since I was afraid I'd eventually wear this one out. But now I'm pretty sure that's never going to happen. Is one is due for a bath though. They can be found on eBay for ~$100. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/why-i-use-a-20-year-old-ibm-model-m-keyboard/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/why-i-use-a-20-year-...
- mhd 10y ago
  There are a number of Chinese keyboards (with "Cherry-like" switches) for about $40 (e.g. [1]). As others pointed out, the switches are the more expensive part, especially now that only few manufactures make them (Cherry, mostly). But it seems that the market amongst gamers has grown large enough that there's some competition coming on. Regarding their quality, I'll doubt they'll outlive Model M buckling springs, but shouldn't fare worse than modern laptop/Apple scissor switches. (This being a gamer thing, styling is often not that great, either. The "tenkeyless" ones are minimalistic enough to be okay, and you don't have to turn on the "Tokyo by Night" mode) [1]: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016MAK38U https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016MAK38U I'd disagree with the pricing though. Even a good non-mech one should cost more than that, it's just that keyboards have been getting crappier as people don't use them anymore.
  - fizixer 10y ago
    The keyboard you mentioned, I'll buy it in a heartbeat if it didn't have red coloring (instead, white-on-black markings), backlight. I mean look at the typeface on the keys. Couldn't they stick to standard keyboard [1] typefaces? [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=standard+keyboard https://www.google.com/search?q=standard+keyboard
    - mhd 10y ago
      Yeah, stuff sold to gamers tends to be styled horribly, so you sometimes pay a premium just for some restraint. Try getting a half way decent tower case these days that doesn't look like a Tie Fighter crossed with an Amsterdam brothel window. But at least it widens the options a bit and after searching around in that space one might get something half way decent. At least some gamers seem to prefer smaller keyboards, so you can get "tenkeyless" mechanical ones. Just a while ago, every gamer keyboard looked like Rick Wakeman designed it. Them using cherry switch copys, getting replacement keycaps could be an option, but I haven't found a good deal on those yet.
- sosodaft 10y ago
  If you think mech keyboard prices are outrageous you should see what nice keycaps will run you. I'm pretty sure they're worth more than gold, by weight.
- fizixer 10y ago
  Just wanted to give an update. Went ahead and bought a TKL (TenKeyLess, one without the numpad, 87 keys) TOMOKO for around $30 USD. Only available in switches equivalent to Cherry MX blue (I was aiming for brown). It's not bad. I think I'm going to like it in the long run.
  - fizixer 10y ago
    Update: Oh boy, I'm hating it. The clackety noise in the middle of the night (and no, o-rings aren't going to cut; I just realize I don't like mechs). I'm back on the old completely silent rubber-dome keyboard (my all time favorite keyboard is the one on my thinkpad x61 laptop). I'll think for a few days to decide whether to return it or keep it as a freak equipment.
gravypod 10y ago
Shop around and look off-brand MX switches and for something on newegg sold as "Open Box". I got one of this [0] from newegg for $50 (shipped!) a while back when they still had some. The box was still sealed but they were selling off bad stock. The keys came in the wrong locations and I just had to switch them around. Worth the effort and I've been using this for ~300 days, every day, at a lot of words per day (if you look at my account's comments you'll see I'm not one for brevity). You can still find cheap mechanical 10-keyless boards on amazon with off-brand switches easily [1] [2] by searching "10-keyless". The brand that's "the cheap one" always rotates from month to month so buy them while they're hot. [0] - https://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-RGB80-Illuminated-Mechanical-Switches/dp/B00KN6548O https://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-RGB80-Illuminated-Mechanical... [1] - https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823098002 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682309... [2] - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DXVUDEA/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DXVUDEA/

by tutuca 10y ago

fizixer 10y ago

I'm in the market for a full size mech but I'm disgusted by what I'm finding. Either all kinds of fancy nonsense like backlights, shitty fonts, shitty ergonomic shapes, shitty colors. Or. Insanely outrageous prices (and the accompanying hipster elitism). An amazon basics non-mech costs under $15. A mech shouldn't cost more than $30, and yet you can't find one even at $70. (Mayby Amazon basics should offer one, I'll buy it right away).

ChuckMcM 10y ago
The market is working against you. Since the market for mechanical keyboards is small, the number of mechanical switches that are sold less, so manufacturing overhead is spread over fewer switches and you end up paying more for them. In the US at least you can still find the older IBM PC and IBM PC/AT keyboards at thrift shops and swap meets. They range in price from $1 to $100. And you'll want to find a way of adapting the interface to your computer (easy if its PS/2, a bit harder if its the old AT round connector). I'm typing this on the Cooler Master Masterkeys Pro S, its a full size mechanical but it leaves off the number pad (which I don't use) but keeps the arrow keys and edit cluster (which I do). It is backlit but generally I just leave it on a low backlight. I've got a hack that blinks the F11 key when a meeting is coming up. Like you said it was $125 but I expect to use it for at least 5 years so $25/year isn't particularly bad given that non-mechanical keyboards last me 18 months if I'm lucky. My previous daily driver was a full sized Thinkpad mechanical from the 90's with a track pad in it. After 20 years it started missing keys, and its huge, and I started losing keystrokes.
- fizixer 10y ago
  I sat on your response for a while but it just occurred to me, as I responded to the other commenter, I'm perfectly fine with the price points of chinese knockoffs on ebay, alibaba, ali-express, etc. But they put on too much fancy bells and whistles. Removing them doesn't cost them a dime (probably will save them on the cost per keyboard).
jdietrich 10y ago
>A mech shouldn't cost more than $30 You can't buy a set of switches for that. Building a mechanical keyboard is inherently expensive, before you even get into economies of scale. Adjusted for inflation, mechanical keyboards are far cheaper than they used to be. The amortized cost of a quality keyboard is tiny, because it will have a lifespan measured in decades rather than years. There are tons of non-hipster keyboards available. Filco, Leopold and Cherry have been around since well before the current trend. Unicomp still make buckling-spring keyboards based on the old IBM designs.
intrasight 10y ago
I'm typing this on a 1984 IBM Model "M" plugged into USB via PS/2 to USB converter. I have bought several on eBay - since I was afraid I'd eventually wear this one out. But now I'm pretty sure that's never going to happen. Is one is due for a bath though. They can be found on eBay for ~$100. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/why-i-use-a-20-year-old-ibm-model-m-keyboard/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/why-i-use-a-20-year-...
mhd 10y ago
There are a number of Chinese keyboards (with "Cherry-like" switches) for about $40 (e.g. [1]). As others pointed out, the switches are the more expensive part, especially now that only few manufactures make them (Cherry, mostly). But it seems that the market amongst gamers has grown large enough that there's some competition coming on. Regarding their quality, I'll doubt they'll outlive Model M buckling springs, but shouldn't fare worse than modern laptop/Apple scissor switches. (This being a gamer thing, styling is often not that great, either. The "tenkeyless" ones are minimalistic enough to be okay, and you don't have to turn on the "Tokyo by Night" mode) [1]: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016MAK38U https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016MAK38U I'd disagree with the pricing though. Even a good non-mech one should cost more than that, it's just that keyboards have been getting crappier as people don't use them anymore.
- fizixer 10y ago
  The keyboard you mentioned, I'll buy it in a heartbeat if it didn't have red coloring (instead, white-on-black markings), backlight. I mean look at the typeface on the keys. Couldn't they stick to standard keyboard [1] typefaces? [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=standard+keyboard https://www.google.com/search?q=standard+keyboard
  - mhd 10y ago
    Yeah, stuff sold to gamers tends to be styled horribly, so you sometimes pay a premium just for some restraint. Try getting a half way decent tower case these days that doesn't look like a Tie Fighter crossed with an Amsterdam brothel window. But at least it widens the options a bit and after searching around in that space one might get something half way decent. At least some gamers seem to prefer smaller keyboards, so you can get "tenkeyless" mechanical ones. Just a while ago, every gamer keyboard looked like Rick Wakeman designed it. Them using cherry switch copys, getting replacement keycaps could be an option, but I haven't found a good deal on those yet.
sosodaft 10y ago
If you think mech keyboard prices are outrageous you should see what nice keycaps will run you. I'm pretty sure they're worth more than gold, by weight.
fizixer 10y ago
Just wanted to give an update. Went ahead and bought a TKL (TenKeyLess, one without the numpad, 87 keys) TOMOKO for around $30 USD. Only available in switches equivalent to Cherry MX blue (I was aiming for brown). It's not bad. I think I'm going to like it in the long run.
- fizixer 10y ago
  Update: Oh boy, I'm hating it. The clackety noise in the middle of the night (and no, o-rings aren't going to cut; I just realize I don't like mechs). I'm back on the old completely silent rubber-dome keyboard (my all time favorite keyboard is the one on my thinkpad x61 laptop). I'll think for a few days to decide whether to return it or keep it as a freak equipment.

gravypod 10y ago

Shop around and look off-brand MX switches and for something on newegg sold as "Open Box". I got one of this [0] from newegg for $50 (shipped!) a while back when they still had some. The box was still sealed but they were selling off bad stock. The keys came in the wrong locations and I just had to switch them around. Worth the effort and I've been using this for ~300 days, every day, at a lot of words per day (if you look at my account's comments you'll see I'm not one for brevity). You can still find cheap mechanical 10-keyless boards on amazon with off-brand switches easily [1] [2] by searching "10-keyless". The brand that's "the cheap one" always rotates from month to month so buy them while they're hot. [0] - https://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-RGB80-Illuminated-Mechanical-Switches/dp/B00KN6548O https://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-RGB80-Illuminated-Mechanical... [1] - https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823098002 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682309... [2] - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DXVUDEA/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DXVUDEA/