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A very odd comment. England and Scotland are not a partnership and have spent much of their histories at war with each other. Scotland formed the UK with Engl

by swordee 10y ago

A very odd comment. England and Scotland are not a partnership and have spent much of their histories at war with each other. Scotland formed the UK with England because they were bankrupt. And the UK are not "closing their borders because they're scared of the outside world". They've decided to leave a trading union that doesn't allow them to control their borders, in which no elected person can introduce new legislation, and in which they are not allowed to negotiate their own trade deals. You seem very much to have "bought the hype" here.

eyko 10y ago
> and in which they are not allowed to negotiate their own trade deals. And that is a bad thing how exactly? What trade deals does the EU lack that the UK would've negotiated, had we been free to? There are obvious reasons why the EU negotiates as a block (the nature of the single market), and why the UK cannot negotiate trade deals with third parties until it exits the bloc - for example, it's unknown if the UK will have access to the single market after leaving the bloc, and any trade deals with (for example) the US or China could be incompatible until the terms are clear.
matthewmacleod 10y ago
England and Scotland (as well as Wales and Northern Ireland) are very clearly a partnership. There is significant imbalance therein, but that doesn't render it nonexistent. And the UK is very much flapping about with little idea of what it is doing and why. Immigration does seem to be the biggest concern - but there is little evidence as to why it is the biggest concern. If anything, I'd suggest that Brexit is the result of the same phenomenon that elected Trump - a general dissatisfaction with the state of governance and a lack of options with which to deal with it. People are understandably frustrated and want to effect some change; it's easy to believe promises made to this effect.
- swordee 10y ago
  Is it possible that you can prove literally anything there that you have said?
  - matthewmacleod 10y ago
    I'm not really sure how one could prove impressions about political events… it's certainly the impression I have from inside the UK though.
YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
>> no elected person can introduce new legislation Only the European Commission can introduce new legislation, however the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union vote to approve, or disapprove, any new legislation, and have the power to amend it. The lack of legislative initiative of course is due to the fact that, initially, the EU was not a political union, and there is still strong resistance from nationalist factions within member states to the "ever closer union". Those are usually the same factions that complain of the perceived "democratic deficit" that is due to their own resistance to a closer political union. Btw, dramatis personnae, the three legislative bodies of the European Union: a) The European Commission, is made up of 28 European Commissioners, one for each member state, selected by the states' governments and approved by the Parliament. One of them, the President of the Commission (currently, Jean-Claude Juncker) is elected by the Parliament from candidates put forward by the European Council. b) The European Parliament, is directly elected by the people of the EU member states in the five-yearly European Elections. c) The Council of the European Union, is composed of ministers of the EU member states, normally each of them elected directly by the citizens of their respective states and appointed by their national governments.

by swordee 10y ago

eyko 10y ago

> and in which they are not allowed to negotiate their own trade deals. And that is a bad thing how exactly? What trade deals does the EU lack that the UK would've negotiated, had we been free to? There are obvious reasons why the EU negotiates as a block (the nature of the single market), and why the UK cannot negotiate trade deals with third parties until it exits the bloc - for example, it's unknown if the UK will have access to the single market after leaving the bloc, and any trade deals with (for example) the US or China could be incompatible until the terms are clear.

matthewmacleod 10y ago

England and Scotland (as well as Wales and Northern Ireland) are very clearly a partnership. There is significant imbalance therein, but that doesn't render it nonexistent. And the UK is very much flapping about with little idea of what it is doing and why. Immigration does seem to be the biggest concern - but there is little evidence as to why it is the biggest concern. If anything, I'd suggest that Brexit is the result of the same phenomenon that elected Trump - a general dissatisfaction with the state of governance and a lack of options with which to deal with it. People are understandably frustrated and want to effect some change; it's easy to believe promises made to this effect.

swordee 10y ago
Is it possible that you can prove literally anything there that you have said?
- matthewmacleod 10y ago
  I'm not really sure how one could prove impressions about political events… it's certainly the impression I have from inside the UK though.

YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago

>> no elected person can introduce new legislation Only the European Commission can introduce new legislation, however the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union vote to approve, or disapprove, any new legislation, and have the power to amend it. The lack of legislative initiative of course is due to the fact that, initially, the EU was not a political union, and there is still strong resistance from nationalist factions within member states to the "ever closer union". Those are usually the same factions that complain of the perceived "democratic deficit" that is due to their own resistance to a closer political union. Btw, dramatis personnae, the three legislative bodies of the European Union: a) The European Commission, is made up of 28 European Commissioners, one for each member state, selected by the states' governments and approved by the Parliament. One of them, the President of the Commission (currently, Jean-Claude Juncker) is elected by the Parliament from candidates put forward by the European Council. b) The European Parliament, is directly elected by the people of the EU member states in the five-yearly European Elections. c) The Council of the European Union, is composed of ministers of the EU member states, normally each of them elected directly by the citizens of their respective states and appointed by their national governments.