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> Tesla is doing to traditional car manufacturers what Apple did to Nokia. Sincerely, and with all due respect, this is a false analogy. What happened to Noki

> Tesla is doing to traditional car manufacturers what Apple did to Nokia. Sincerely, and with all due respect, this is a false analogy. What happened to Nokia was pretty much self inflicted. Mismanagement, competing empires, complacency. Apple did not start shipping low end brick phones and eat Nokia's market. Post '08 bailout automotive manufacturers are lean and hungry (for the most part) Furthermore, the 'traditional' car market, while slow to move, is not far behind. And in some cases is taking a longer view. E.g. Ford is going straight to Level 4 in 2022. Forget the ICE v. electric debate, that ship has sailed and everyone is heading to EV. The real battle will be to produce the safest self driving product. I am long on TSLA, I expect them to do well however they are in a far riskier spot than Apple was when the iPhone dropped. They were healthy, profitable and experienced (+Jobs). TSLA is none of those. I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment. I just thought we were past the Apple analogies.

jaimex2 10y ago
I dont know... Tesla is currently training their driving AI using the existing fleet in shadow mode. How do you skip this step and go straight to level 4? They need months of tuning outside a lab, worldwide. A lot of car manufacturers still refuse to build an EV from the ground up. They are reusing an ICE platform and converting them to EVs. Mazda don't even acknowledge that they need to build EVs. https://electrek.co/2017/03/07/mazda-no-pressure-from-customers-to-make-electric-vehicles/ https://electrek.co/2017/03/07/mazda-no-pressure-from-custom... heh, I'm sorry. Musk is still alive and surpassed Jobs long ago now, he's up to his 5th disruptive successful company. Online Payment, Cars, Space, Solar roofs and AI beat shiny laptop and smartphone.
- radiorental 10y ago
  I see car companies getting off the shelf solutions from companies like Nvidia, which is what is being trained in Tesla's today. And Nvidia have their own demo. I genuinely wonder who owns the algorithm... It actually makes sense to jump to level 4 from both a liability & design/platform perspective. The fact that Tesla is bleeding through the first few stages with driver-in-the-loop doesn't necessarily mean they get to maintain a competitive advantage long term. (Also, Mazda is a 2nd tier manufacturer, little resources, mostly Ford parts Inc drivetrain, engine and firmware) Finally, I appreciate the Musk fandom. As someone with a little skin in TSLA, I aim to take an objective view fwiw.
  - pmorici 10y ago
    That is no longer true with respect to Mazda.
    - radiorental 10y ago
      Good to know, just sold my '04 Mazda 6 which was pretty much all Ford. After looking it up I see that Ford reduced ownership from 1/3rd to 10% in '08. Thanks for the correction.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- kayoone 10y ago
  The german manufactures are not asleep at the wheel, get into the newest E-Class and despite it being a lot cheaper than a Model S, the self driving capabilities are impressive. Don't even let me start on the interieur quality, which is my biggest gripe with Tesla considering their price segment.
  - Tepix 10y ago
    I agree. However they are still behind with regards to cars that are designed from the ground up to be electric.
  - vsl 10y ago
    "Impressive" is not the word I'd use. If you didn't drive Model S, perhaps. Otherwise, meh. http://www.thedrive.com/tech/4591/the-war-for-autonomous-driving-2017-mercedes-benz-e-class-vs-2017-tesla-model-s http://www.thedrive.com/tech/4591/the-war-for-autonomous-dri...
Retric 10y ago
Car companies are selling bricks. In large part because of the used car market no company makes reliable and cheap because the cost conscious don't buy new cars. Further, the dealer model forces high markups, heavy advertising, etc to attract the kind of people that buy new cars.
AOsborn 10y ago
Fair opinion, but I think you are arguing the wrong point. Apple ate market share from Nokia because of brand advantage. Many commentators mention that manufacturers are improving their EV product, but I think that boat has long sailed: Tesla vs. Ford won't be about features, but the brand.
- radiorental 10y ago
  Sorry, when the product is north of 30K, you'll find a significant number of people will put what they can afford ahead of brand loyalty.
  - ethbro 10y ago
    Lots of people really love Ford. And with an EV, there won't be that awkward moment when their friends ask how their transmission is doing...

jaimex2 10y ago

I dont know... Tesla is currently training their driving AI using the existing fleet in shadow mode. How do you skip this step and go straight to level 4? They need months of tuning outside a lab, worldwide. A lot of car manufacturers still refuse to build an EV from the ground up. They are reusing an ICE platform and converting them to EVs. Mazda don't even acknowledge that they need to build EVs. https://electrek.co/2017/03/07/mazda-no-pressure-from-customers-to-make-electric-vehicles/ https://electrek.co/2017/03/07/mazda-no-pressure-from-custom... heh, I'm sorry. Musk is still alive and surpassed Jobs long ago now, he's up to his 5th disruptive successful company. Online Payment, Cars, Space, Solar roofs and AI beat shiny laptop and smartphone.

radiorental 10y ago
I see car companies getting off the shelf solutions from companies like Nvidia, which is what is being trained in Tesla's today. And Nvidia have their own demo. I genuinely wonder who owns the algorithm... It actually makes sense to jump to level 4 from both a liability & design/platform perspective. The fact that Tesla is bleeding through the first few stages with driver-in-the-loop doesn't necessarily mean they get to maintain a competitive advantage long term. (Also, Mazda is a 2nd tier manufacturer, little resources, mostly Ford parts Inc drivetrain, engine and firmware) Finally, I appreciate the Musk fandom. As someone with a little skin in TSLA, I aim to take an objective view fwiw.
- pmorici 10y ago
  That is no longer true with respect to Mazda.
  - radiorental 10y ago
    Good to know, just sold my '04 Mazda 6 which was pretty much all Ford. After looking it up I see that Ford reduced ownership from 1/3rd to 10% in '08. Thanks for the correction.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
kayoone 10y ago
The german manufactures are not asleep at the wheel, get into the newest E-Class and despite it being a lot cheaper than a Model S, the self driving capabilities are impressive. Don't even let me start on the interieur quality, which is my biggest gripe with Tesla considering their price segment.
- Tepix 10y ago
  I agree. However they are still behind with regards to cars that are designed from the ground up to be electric.
- vsl 10y ago
  "Impressive" is not the word I'd use. If you didn't drive Model S, perhaps. Otherwise, meh. http://www.thedrive.com/tech/4591/the-war-for-autonomous-driving-2017-mercedes-benz-e-class-vs-2017-tesla-model-s http://www.thedrive.com/tech/4591/the-war-for-autonomous-dri...

Retric 10y ago

Car companies are selling bricks. In large part because of the used car market no company makes reliable and cheap because the cost conscious don't buy new cars. Further, the dealer model forces high markups, heavy advertising, etc to attract the kind of people that buy new cars.

AOsborn 10y ago

Fair opinion, but I think you are arguing the wrong point. Apple ate market share from Nokia because of brand advantage. Many commentators mention that manufacturers are improving their EV product, but I think that boat has long sailed: Tesla vs. Ford won't be about features, but the brand.

radiorental 10y ago
Sorry, when the product is north of 30K, you'll find a significant number of people will put what they can afford ahead of brand loyalty.
- ethbro 10y ago
  Lots of people really love Ford. And with an EV, there won't be that awkward moment when their friends ask how their transmission is doing...