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Well there also is the other aspect of personal fulfillment that I think the parent was trying to touch on. I personally have plenty of creative things I'd love

Well there also is the other aspect of personal fulfillment that I think the parent was trying to touch on. I personally have plenty of creative things I'd love to do if I wouldn't have to worry about money. For example I'd love to do significantly more ceramics work, build a video game, explore some glass blowing and maybe even get a economics degree for fun. Others might get depressed and just watch reality TV all day or even develop a drug dependency. Our society is currently very much coupling self worth to career success.

TheAdamAndChe 10y ago
Well our career success is kind of important. Healthcare isn't free, housing isn't free, and retirement is very, very expensive. Of course this lack of stability for the lower and middle classes would lead to depression.
- ajmurmann 10y ago
  Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was assuming a scenario where machines automated most work away and our physical needs are taken care off by something like basic income guarantee and low prices due to automation.
mattnewton 10y ago
I think it's the low socio-economic status that makes people less creative. It is exhausting and stressful to worry about money, and tv and drugs look a lot better to an exhausted and stressed person. I only have personal anecdotes for evidence of this theory though.
- spiralx 10y ago
  Poverty has been shown to have a significant effect on IQ - about the same amount as alcoholism according to a study a few years ago: http://www.businessinsider.com/poverty-effect-on-intelligence-2013-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/poverty-effect-on-intelligenc...
  - mattnewton 10y ago
    Thank you, that was a nice read. I'll have to see if I can find competing research, but this theory fits really nicely with my experience.
    - spiralx 10y ago
      If you do I'd be interested as well, perhaps check for articles citing the paper? I've not heard of any more recent research myself.
    - spiralx 10y ago
      I had a look and found these two recent papers seem related... I'm about to read them myself :) Neighborhood Effects on the Long-Term Well-Being of Low-Income Adults (2012) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3491569/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3491569/ On the psychology of poverty (2014) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262582311_On_the_psychology_of_poverty https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262582311_On_the_ps... Most of the research I found seemed focused on childhood poverty specifically, e.g.: Childhood poverty and recruitment of adult emotion regulatory neurocircuitry https://academic.oup.com/scan/article/10/11/1596/1644154/Childhood-poverty-and-recruitment-of-adult-emotion https://academic.oup.com/scan/article/10/11/1596/1644154/Chi... School Readiness and Self-Regulation: A Developmental Psychobiological Approach http://annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-psych-010814-015221 http://annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-psych-01081... How Poverty Affects Classroom Engagement http://reading4all.com/entries/page/1156 http://reading4all.com/entries/page/1156

TheAdamAndChe 10y ago

Well our career success is kind of important. Healthcare isn't free, housing isn't free, and retirement is very, very expensive. Of course this lack of stability for the lower and middle classes would lead to depression.

ajmurmann 10y ago
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was assuming a scenario where machines automated most work away and our physical needs are taken care off by something like basic income guarantee and low prices due to automation.

mattnewton 10y ago

I think it's the low socio-economic status that makes people less creative. It is exhausting and stressful to worry about money, and tv and drugs look a lot better to an exhausted and stressed person. I only have personal anecdotes for evidence of this theory though.

spiralx 10y ago
Poverty has been shown to have a significant effect on IQ - about the same amount as alcoholism according to a study a few years ago: http://www.businessinsider.com/poverty-effect-on-intelligence-2013-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/poverty-effect-on-intelligenc...
- mattnewton 10y ago
  Thank you, that was a nice read. I'll have to see if I can find competing research, but this theory fits really nicely with my experience.
  - spiralx 10y ago
    If you do I'd be interested as well, perhaps check for articles citing the paper? I've not heard of any more recent research myself.
  - spiralx 10y ago
    I had a look and found these two recent papers seem related... I'm about to read them myself :) Neighborhood Effects on the Long-Term Well-Being of Low-Income Adults (2012) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3491569/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3491569/ On the psychology of poverty (2014) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262582311_On_the_psychology_of_poverty https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262582311_On_the_ps... Most of the research I found seemed focused on childhood poverty specifically, e.g.: Childhood poverty and recruitment of adult emotion regulatory neurocircuitry https://academic.oup.com/scan/article/10/11/1596/1644154/Childhood-poverty-and-recruitment-of-adult-emotion https://academic.oup.com/scan/article/10/11/1596/1644154/Chi... School Readiness and Self-Regulation: A Developmental Psychobiological Approach http://annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-psych-010814-015221 http://annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-psych-01081... How Poverty Affects Classroom Engagement http://reading4all.com/entries/page/1156 http://reading4all.com/entries/page/1156