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That 67% number seemed shocking so I tried to dig up a source. Only found this: http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-parent-famil

That 67% number seemed shocking so I tried to dig up a source. Only found this: http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-... And it says: "In this definition, single-parent families may include cohabiting couples ..." So it may not be quite that bad - co-habiting couples sharing children are not a particular risk setup even if they are not married. Where I live - north Europe - they are entirely normal. But what is the proportion of kids, and black kids, actually living with just one parent in the US?

greglindahl 10y ago
Europe is not the USA -- the longevity of unmarried relationships is not the same.
- ptaipale 10y ago
  I was interested about the statistics of this. 67% living out of wedlock, but how many of these are actual co-habiting parents?
Mz 10y ago
From what I have read, the norm for the Black community in the U.S. is that the baby's daddy leaves the picture and mom gets involved with someone else because young Black males are the "last hired, first fired" and also much more likely to spend time in prison than any other demographic in the U.S. So what happens is that many young Black males are not in a position to actually support their children. When "the bum" father who "won't"/can't support the baby exits the picture and mom gets a new boyfriend, since the baby is not his child, anything he does for the baby is viewed as generosity and expression of good character. (Edit: Since you are European, let me explain that this is due to systemic racism and the fact that welfare only pays if you are an unwed mother. So very poor women cannot get married, because they would lose their welfare benefits. This is a horrible thing warping the Black community in directions that Whites then condemn as "immoral" behavior. I have known a White welfare mom who would not marry the father of her kids because he was an unemployed alcoholic and her Catholic mother was incredibly condemning of this, but a) her psycho bitch mother is part of why she was in this mess and b) her psycho bitch mother was not in any position to make sure the kids ate if her daughter lost her welfare benefits. There is a reason we have a saying about how you need to be able to afford middle class morality. Further, the U.S. has a terrible track record compared to Europe in areas such as paid maternity leave...etc. The U.S. is one of the richest countries in the world and most of our children are growing up in poverty because we have very serious issues. This is in no way like YOUR experience.) Furthermore, from what I have read, the Black community in the U.S. is as resilient as it is because they brought a matrilineal orientation with them from Africa: Like a pride of lions, it is female blood relatives that are the backbone of the family for Black Americans. This helps them survive in the face of high unemployment and high incarceration rates, much of it completely unjust. For example, see: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/06/20/derrick-hamilton-jailhouse-lawyer http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/06/20/derrick-hamilto... There is also this (NSFW) piece about discrimination in the fashion industry: http://globalnews.ca/news/3115014/black-mirror-project-highlights-lack-of-diversity-in-the-fashion-industry/ http://globalnews.ca/news/3115014/black-mirror-project-highl... Having said all that, I am very sympathetic to the author of this piece. I am female and I get a lot of flack from other women, apparently for failing to be as crapped on by men as they are and for failing to be as bitter about my life as a woman as they are -- at least, that seems to be the gist of it, as best I can tell. And when I try to talk about what I think works and is effective, the most common response is to accuse me of blaming the victim for telling women what they can do to try to handle life as a woman more effectively, in spite of the assholes in the world. I find it enormously frustrating. Like "Do you actually want a fucking solution? Or do you just like being a victim and want someone to validate that it isn't possible to have anything better?" I spend a lot of time wondering why the fuck I bother trying to be helpful to people. I spend a lot of time wondering if I need to just quit trying to be helpful and just focus on figuring out how to solve my own financial problems, and to hell with the rest of the world because it sure as hell does not give a flying fuck about me, so why should I give a flying fuck about it, only to be kicked in the teeth for it? And I say that (about my own life experience) to say this: Yes, the Black community in the U.S. has real and serious problems. This man's experience is not the norm. But I think he has a valid criticism of the media here. Blacks routinely complain that they are underrepresented in media and they lack good role models because of racism by Whites who control so much media, yet he can't get his story published in a major Black medium because it isn't enough of a sob story. I think that is a completely legitimate thing to point out as something very wrong with the system.
- notdonspaulding 10y ago
  First off, thanks for being a woman and staying in our industry, in spite of the flack you get! Secondly, you say "This man's experience is not the norm." but I'm wondering what you base that on?
  - Mz 10y ago
    I base that on the statistics being discussed in the parent comment and the details I started my comment with. Plus recent stuff I have read about how much wealth people of color have lost in this country in recent years. From a piece about how eviction has become such a shocking norm in the U.S. for the first time in history: Hispanic and African American neighbourhoods had been targeted by the sub-prime lending industry: renters were lured into buying bad mortgages, and homeowners were encouraged to refinance under riskier terms. Then it all came crashing down. Between 2007 and 2010, the average white family experienced an 11% reduction in wealth, but the average black family lost 31% of its wealth. The average Hispanic family lost 44.7%. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/12/americas-eviction-epidemic-matthew-desmond-housing-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/12/americas-evi...
- tashi 10y ago
  Re: your aside about your personal experience, I've heard it called "engineer's disease" to hear a person complaining about something in their lives and respond by trying to offer a solution. For many people, commiserating about bad experiences is mostly a bonding exercise, and your main job is just to listen and empathize. If you immediately jump into problem-solving mode, even though you're trying to help it can feel hostile. You may already know that, but since it's not a thing I ever would have figured out on my own, I thought it was worth mentioning. (Hey, I just noticed: I'm a black man posting my experience in the comments to an article about a black man's experience, but my only comment is unsolicited advice to a woman about how not to offer unsolicited advice to women. My irony detector just crashed.)
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

greglindahl 10y ago

Europe is not the USA -- the longevity of unmarried relationships is not the same.

ptaipale 10y ago
I was interested about the statistics of this. 67% living out of wedlock, but how many of these are actual co-habiting parents?

Mz 10y ago

From what I have read, the norm for the Black community in the U.S. is that the baby's daddy leaves the picture and mom gets involved with someone else because young Black males are the "last hired, first fired" and also much more likely to spend time in prison than any other demographic in the U.S. So what happens is that many young Black males are not in a position to actually support their children. When "the bum" father who "won't"/can't support the baby exits the picture and mom gets a new boyfriend, since the baby is not his child, anything he does for the baby is viewed as generosity and expression of good character. (Edit: Since you are European, let me explain that this is due to systemic racism and the fact that welfare only pays if you are an unwed mother. So very poor women cannot get married, because they would lose their welfare benefits. This is a horrible thing warping the Black community in directions that Whites then condemn as "immoral" behavior. I have known a White welfare mom who would not marry the father of her kids because he was an unemployed alcoholic and her Catholic mother was incredibly condemning of this, but a) her psycho bitch mother is part of why she was in this mess and b) her psycho bitch mother was not in any position to make sure the kids ate if her daughter lost her welfare benefits. There is a reason we have a saying about how you need to be able to afford middle class morality. Further, the U.S. has a terrible track record compared to Europe in areas such as paid maternity leave...etc. The U.S. is one of the richest countries in the world and most of our children are growing up in poverty because we have very serious issues. This is in no way like YOUR experience.) Furthermore, from what I have read, the Black community in the U.S. is as resilient as it is because they brought a matrilineal orientation with them from Africa: Like a pride of lions, it is female blood relatives that are the backbone of the family for Black Americans. This helps them survive in the face of high unemployment and high incarceration rates, much of it completely unjust. For example, see: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/06/20/derrick-hamilton-jailhouse-lawyer http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/06/20/derrick-hamilto... There is also this (NSFW) piece about discrimination in the fashion industry: http://globalnews.ca/news/3115014/black-mirror-project-highlights-lack-of-diversity-in-the-fashion-industry/ http://globalnews.ca/news/3115014/black-mirror-project-highl... Having said all that, I am very sympathetic to the author of this piece. I am female and I get a lot of flack from other women, apparently for failing to be as crapped on by men as they are and for failing to be as bitter about my life as a woman as they are -- at least, that seems to be the gist of it, as best I can tell. And when I try to talk about what I think works and is effective, the most common response is to accuse me of blaming the victim for telling women what they can do to try to handle life as a woman more effectively, in spite of the assholes in the world. I find it enormously frustrating. Like "Do you actually want a fucking solution? Or do you just like being a victim and want someone to validate that it isn't possible to have anything better?" I spend a lot of time wondering why the fuck I bother trying to be helpful to people. I spend a lot of time wondering if I need to just quit trying to be helpful and just focus on figuring out how to solve my own financial problems, and to hell with the rest of the world because it sure as hell does not give a flying fuck about me, so why should I give a flying fuck about it, only to be kicked in the teeth for it? And I say that (about my own life experience) to say this: Yes, the Black community in the U.S. has real and serious problems. This man's experience is not the norm. But I think he has a valid criticism of the media here. Blacks routinely complain that they are underrepresented in media and they lack good role models because of racism by Whites who control so much media, yet he can't get his story published in a major Black medium because it isn't enough of a sob story. I think that is a completely legitimate thing to point out as something very wrong with the system.

notdonspaulding 10y ago
First off, thanks for being a woman and staying in our industry, in spite of the flack you get! Secondly, you say "This man's experience is not the norm." but I'm wondering what you base that on?
- Mz 10y ago
  I base that on the statistics being discussed in the parent comment and the details I started my comment with. Plus recent stuff I have read about how much wealth people of color have lost in this country in recent years. From a piece about how eviction has become such a shocking norm in the U.S. for the first time in history: Hispanic and African American neighbourhoods had been targeted by the sub-prime lending industry: renters were lured into buying bad mortgages, and homeowners were encouraged to refinance under riskier terms. Then it all came crashing down. Between 2007 and 2010, the average white family experienced an 11% reduction in wealth, but the average black family lost 31% of its wealth. The average Hispanic family lost 44.7%. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/12/americas-eviction-epidemic-matthew-desmond-housing-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/12/americas-evi...
tashi 10y ago
Re: your aside about your personal experience, I've heard it called "engineer's disease" to hear a person complaining about something in their lives and respond by trying to offer a solution. For many people, commiserating about bad experiences is mostly a bonding exercise, and your main job is just to listen and empathize. If you immediately jump into problem-solving mode, even though you're trying to help it can feel hostile. You may already know that, but since it's not a thing I ever would have figured out on my own, I thought it was worth mentioning. (Hey, I just noticed: I'm a black man posting my experience in the comments to an article about a black man's experience, but my only comment is unsolicited advice to a woman about how not to offer unsolicited advice to women. My irony detector just crashed.)
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]