5 ms·

This sort of "all blacks must be poor and perpetually victims of racism" narrative was exploited very well during the Democratic Primary by the Hillary campaign

by sidlls 10y ago

This sort of "all blacks must be poor and perpetually victims of racism" narrative was exploited very well during the Democratic Primary by the Hillary campaign. And then Trump happened. It was and is shameful. And yet, the fact is that among those 75% of blacks who aren't poor, a much higher ratio of them as compared with whites (even poorer whites) will fall victim to a great many life-impacting negatives, from poorer quality of treatment by medical professionals to discrimination in finance. The difference is definitely related to racism. Also, his anecdote certainly isn't typical for poor folks or black folks, and especially not poor black folks. Overall he has a decent point regarding the "poor, racism beaten" stereotype, but it's not very well argued, in my view.

pvg 10y ago
I think you have this a little backwards. It's Trump who portrayed black communities like that. http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/politics/donald-trump-african-americans-election-2016/ http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/politics/donald-trump-african-...
- wonderflpancake 10y ago
  > I think you have this a little backwards. It's Trump who portrayed black communities like that. lol no. But as you are pointing to a CNN article it makes sense you would think that, if thats where you were getting your news. They were trying to influence the election just as much anyone (aka the Russians), but apparently that doesn't bother anyone.
  - dcole2929 10y ago
    Trumps literal argument for why blacks should vote for him was "What do you have to lose?". Independent source - AP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-jasg-_E5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-jasg-_E5M
    - jpttsn 10y ago
      Did it work?
  - pvg 10y ago
    The article is for the quotes which are accurate. It's Trump who said African Americans have 'nothing to lose', described the conditions in which they live as the 'worst ever' and portrayed the communities in which they live in outright dystopian terms. So I think that's a 'yes' and not much of a lol.
  - wonderflpancake 10y ago
    re: "What do you have to lose?" - This is simply the very valid argument that many big cities have been Democrat-run for the last 50 or so years, and saying the equivalent of "its not working, stop voting that way".
    - pvg 10y ago
      It doesn't matter what the argument is, it suggests that they are doing very, very poorly. We were discussing whether Trump employed this rhetoric. Yes he did and it was the centerpiece (and nearly totality) of his campaign's black voter outreach. The premise is that conditions for African Americans are a disaster. I'm not sure what there is to dispute here.
    - alistproducer2 10y ago
      All the black folks I know, including myself, did not take it like that. The point, being made in front of an all white audience, as it was, looked a lot more like a reinforcement of the well trodden belief among conservative folks that black people's problems are due to Democratic mismanagement, their own rotten culture, and not racism (because racism hasn't been real since the 60's)
stvswn 10y ago
I think that there's an argument to be made that Hillary didn't rally the Black vote well enough, because she assumed that it would transfer to her as part of a new permanent Democratic majority instead of being an artifact of enthusiasm for the first Black president. In other words, she took them for granted. I didn't see much pandering from her at all. The most shameful race-related story of the Democratic side was when Bernie was libeled as a racist by Black activists with thinly disguised connections to the Clinton campaign. Hillary made strategic missteps, I don't think that portraying Blacks as victims was one of them. Your point may be that the Democrats have played this game too long and turned off working-class whites, creating an opening for a populist, politically incorrect Republican who only has to agree to keep his hands off of Social Security and Medicare and he's "liberal enough." I think there's some truth to that.
- sidlls 10y ago
  Hillary didn't rally the black vote well enough during the general, but that's one failing among many of hers as a candidate in that election. I was referring specifically to the campaign for the nomination, in which she and her campaign successfully cast Bernie as a racist, as you note, and did so in part by portraying him as though he thought poverty caused racism instead of racism contributing to the poverty of black folks. There were other factors at play (e.g. Lewis' remarks about not remembering seeing Bernie around during civil rights protests and activities), but those are separte, if related, issues. But, yes, you are also spot on regarding the Democrats' malfeasance in "play[ing] this game too long," too.
  - stvswn 10y ago
    Interesting. I wonder if the Clinton campaign tried to get too clever against Bernie by dividing his support -- tell Blacks he's not committed to civil rights, tell Hispanics he's anti-immigration, tell women his supporters are all "Bernie Bros." This way, it would be hard for him to catch fire outside of white males, making the math hard for him. She may have won the battle but lost the war: the message that she's not the candidate for the white working class resonated too well, and she didn't do enough to pivot back to the Rust Belt when it mattered -- giving Trump an opening to "pick the lock" on the great Democratic firewall.
uncletaco 10y ago
I don't recall Hillary Clinton ever pushing the "all blacks must be poor and perpetually victims of racism" narrative. If anything that sounds like a caricature to me considering Donald Trump said the following. > “You’re living in your poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed — what the hell do you have to lose?” I mean, one candidate was recruiting campaign surrogates to get out the black vote while the other was asking black people "what do you have to lose?" I don't see much of a comparison.

by sidlls 10y ago

pvg 10y ago

I think you have this a little backwards. It's Trump who portrayed black communities like that. http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/politics/donald-trump-african-americans-election-2016/ http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/politics/donald-trump-african-...

wonderflpancake 10y ago
> I think you have this a little backwards. It's Trump who portrayed black communities like that. lol no. But as you are pointing to a CNN article it makes sense you would think that, if thats where you were getting your news. They were trying to influence the election just as much anyone (aka the Russians), but apparently that doesn't bother anyone.
- dcole2929 10y ago
  Trumps literal argument for why blacks should vote for him was "What do you have to lose?". Independent source - AP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-jasg-_E5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-jasg-_E5M
  - jpttsn 10y ago
    Did it work?
- pvg 10y ago
  The article is for the quotes which are accurate. It's Trump who said African Americans have 'nothing to lose', described the conditions in which they live as the 'worst ever' and portrayed the communities in which they live in outright dystopian terms. So I think that's a 'yes' and not much of a lol.
- wonderflpancake 10y ago
  re: "What do you have to lose?" - This is simply the very valid argument that many big cities have been Democrat-run for the last 50 or so years, and saying the equivalent of "its not working, stop voting that way".
  - pvg 10y ago
    It doesn't matter what the argument is, it suggests that they are doing very, very poorly. We were discussing whether Trump employed this rhetoric. Yes he did and it was the centerpiece (and nearly totality) of his campaign's black voter outreach. The premise is that conditions for African Americans are a disaster. I'm not sure what there is to dispute here.
  - alistproducer2 10y ago
    All the black folks I know, including myself, did not take it like that. The point, being made in front of an all white audience, as it was, looked a lot more like a reinforcement of the well trodden belief among conservative folks that black people's problems are due to Democratic mismanagement, their own rotten culture, and not racism (because racism hasn't been real since the 60's)

stvswn 10y ago

I think that there's an argument to be made that Hillary didn't rally the Black vote well enough, because she assumed that it would transfer to her as part of a new permanent Democratic majority instead of being an artifact of enthusiasm for the first Black president. In other words, she took them for granted. I didn't see much pandering from her at all. The most shameful race-related story of the Democratic side was when Bernie was libeled as a racist by Black activists with thinly disguised connections to the Clinton campaign. Hillary made strategic missteps, I don't think that portraying Blacks as victims was one of them. Your point may be that the Democrats have played this game too long and turned off working-class whites, creating an opening for a populist, politically incorrect Republican who only has to agree to keep his hands off of Social Security and Medicare and he's "liberal enough." I think there's some truth to that.

sidlls 10y ago
Hillary didn't rally the black vote well enough during the general, but that's one failing among many of hers as a candidate in that election. I was referring specifically to the campaign for the nomination, in which she and her campaign successfully cast Bernie as a racist, as you note, and did so in part by portraying him as though he thought poverty caused racism instead of racism contributing to the poverty of black folks. There were other factors at play (e.g. Lewis' remarks about not remembering seeing Bernie around during civil rights protests and activities), but those are separte, if related, issues. But, yes, you are also spot on regarding the Democrats' malfeasance in "play[ing] this game too long," too.
- stvswn 10y ago
  Interesting. I wonder if the Clinton campaign tried to get too clever against Bernie by dividing his support -- tell Blacks he's not committed to civil rights, tell Hispanics he's anti-immigration, tell women his supporters are all "Bernie Bros." This way, it would be hard for him to catch fire outside of white males, making the math hard for him. She may have won the battle but lost the war: the message that she's not the candidate for the white working class resonated too well, and she didn't do enough to pivot back to the Rust Belt when it mattered -- giving Trump an opening to "pick the lock" on the great Democratic firewall.

uncletaco 10y ago

I don't recall Hillary Clinton ever pushing the "all blacks must be poor and perpetually victims of racism" narrative. If anything that sounds like a caricature to me considering Donald Trump said the following. > “You’re living in your poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed — what the hell do you have to lose?” I mean, one candidate was recruiting campaign surrogates to get out the black vote while the other was asking black people "what do you have to lose?" I don't see much of a comparison.