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The car you are buying for $25k today is a lot nicer than the car you would've bought for $25k ten years ago. It is more fuel efficient, safer, and will last lo

The car you are buying for $25k today is a lot nicer than the car you would've bought for $25k ten years ago. It is more fuel efficient, safer, and will last longer not to mention it likely comes with features that were completely unheard of a decade ago.

treehau5 10y ago
Maybe true with cars, but what about consumer electronics? HVAC systems? Wireless routers? Furniture even? Even clothes. It's all cheap garbage, inflated and marked up.
- pdelbarba 10y ago
  I can design a wireless router as a side project. I've built my own furniture for fun. I don't think I have the resources to start a car manufacturing line... When the barrier to entry is high, there's no reason to lower prices.
  - cr0sh 10y ago
    Actually, the barrier to entry to build a car isn't that high - it only appears that way. Most of the parts - if not all - are available. All one really needs is the knowledge (internet), the tools ($$$), and the space ($$$$) to build. I have a friend whose father is in his 70s, who builds custom VW vehicles; one of his last vehicles used a shortened chassis and the cab from an old electric truck (might've been a Cushman). He finished that one, and is moving on to another. Plenty of people fabricate rally cars and sand rails using tubular steel and fairly simple tools (tube bender, a notcher, mig welder, grinder, plasma cutter or torch, etc). In many cases one can do this all in their garage (but it is better to have a more dedicated space). Engines tend toward the VW end of things, but nothing says you have to use such an engine; there are plenty of new and used engines and sub-frames to work from. I've considered building something similar to this flatpack truck: http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-vehicle/ http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-vehicle/ I figure that the parts from an old VW Vanagon could provide most of it; that or use some front-wheel drive vehicle, then build the cab-over part. The only real compromise on all of this would be the safety aspect; pretty much any home-brew vehicle is going to be a likely death trap in a real accident, but that is outside the argument of being able build one. There's also the issue of registration and insurance, but this too can be overcome (at least here in the United States - other countries may be more or less lenient/easy to do this). The information is out there to build a vehicle, and fairly cheap too. You just have to be willing to get your hands dirty (and suffer some injuries - it seems any kind of automotive work requires a blood sacrifice, not unlike PC repair).
    - ensiferum 10y ago
      I just wonder how would you ever pass this for road worthiness?
    - pdelbarba 10y ago
      You bring up a good point; I'd still say it's harder but not insurmountably so. Maybe a better way of differentiating would be the regulatory hell you'd have to go through to sell your cars on a mass production scale. For a router, you could actually get away with almost no testing or paperwork whatsoever (not even with the FCC if you use pre-certified RF modules).
- dragontamer 10y ago
  > consumer electronics You're more than welcome to use a Palm Pilot if you really think its better than a Pilot 1000 (Retail Price: $299). I think most people would prefer a modern Moto G5 Plus however. Or any other consumer electronics item really... Gameboy vs Modern "New 3DS". Both cost the same historically. (Well, I got a $99 deal on the 3DS. But the 2DS has been like $79 even when not on sale) > HVAC systems As far as I can tell, they've got a lot cheaper and more efficient in the last 20 years. > Wireless routers I'm pretty sure that the Asus routers around $100 are better than the $100 Linksys routers from 10 years ago. Not just in technology (Modern ASUS routers have 802.11ac), but just... they are easier to work with and seem to have significantly better antennas. And all of these numbers don't even account for inflation!
wazoox 10y ago
I beg to disagree. My car is a 2009 Volvo S60. The climate controls are far superior to all the tactile screen unusable crap I see on all current cars. I'm not much confident that the new displays replacing the old dials will last as long, too. OK, the GPS in my car is useless, but nobody uses the built-in GPS anyway, but Google maps or Waze so who cares? The only lacking feature is a highly automated cruise-control. That's too bad, but when I see the horrible, horrible UI in my colleague's brand new Mercedes GLC (and the bugs! the bugs! in a 70K€ car!) I don't regret it :)
- lostlogin 10y ago
  That's the "likely" section addressed. Safer and more fuel efficient is still correct (unless it's a VW).
yardie 10y ago
You could say the same for practically any modern appliance, consumer electronics, computer and the price would be 25-50% than 10 years ago. 10 years ago I had a chocolate bar phone that just did email for $99. Now I can get a cheap Android that does way more than email for $50. These gains in technology and automation don't appear to be reflected in car manufacturing. Also the car I bought 10 years ago was $15k. Fuel efficiency hasn't changed that much, safety standards either. But now, to make the price appear appealing I'm expected to make 60 (5 years) payments rather than 38 (3 years).
- coredog64 10y ago
  > Fuel efficiency hasn't changed that much, safety standards either. CAFE essentially puts a ceiling on fuel economy, so instead of getting a more efficient car of the same size, fuel economy is held constant and the size of the car (or its performance) increases. As for safety, MY2008+ vehicles are required to have TPMS. Next year backup cameras will be required by the NHTSA. It's not a legal requirement, but electronic stability control is available on many more current models than 10 years ago.
st3v3r 10y ago
But that's not really due to automation. That's due to R&D.

treehau5 10y ago

Maybe true with cars, but what about consumer electronics? HVAC systems? Wireless routers? Furniture even? Even clothes. It's all cheap garbage, inflated and marked up.

pdelbarba 10y ago
I can design a wireless router as a side project. I've built my own furniture for fun. I don't think I have the resources to start a car manufacturing line... When the barrier to entry is high, there's no reason to lower prices.
- cr0sh 10y ago
  Actually, the barrier to entry to build a car isn't that high - it only appears that way. Most of the parts - if not all - are available. All one really needs is the knowledge (internet), the tools ($$$), and the space ($$$$) to build. I have a friend whose father is in his 70s, who builds custom VW vehicles; one of his last vehicles used a shortened chassis and the cab from an old electric truck (might've been a Cushman). He finished that one, and is moving on to another. Plenty of people fabricate rally cars and sand rails using tubular steel and fairly simple tools (tube bender, a notcher, mig welder, grinder, plasma cutter or torch, etc). In many cases one can do this all in their garage (but it is better to have a more dedicated space). Engines tend toward the VW end of things, but nothing says you have to use such an engine; there are plenty of new and used engines and sub-frames to work from. I've considered building something similar to this flatpack truck: http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-vehicle/ http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-vehicle/ I figure that the parts from an old VW Vanagon could provide most of it; that or use some front-wheel drive vehicle, then build the cab-over part. The only real compromise on all of this would be the safety aspect; pretty much any home-brew vehicle is going to be a likely death trap in a real accident, but that is outside the argument of being able build one. There's also the issue of registration and insurance, but this too can be overcome (at least here in the United States - other countries may be more or less lenient/easy to do this). The information is out there to build a vehicle, and fairly cheap too. You just have to be willing to get your hands dirty (and suffer some injuries - it seems any kind of automotive work requires a blood sacrifice, not unlike PC repair).
  - ensiferum 10y ago
    I just wonder how would you ever pass this for road worthiness?
  - pdelbarba 10y ago
    You bring up a good point; I'd still say it's harder but not insurmountably so. Maybe a better way of differentiating would be the regulatory hell you'd have to go through to sell your cars on a mass production scale. For a router, you could actually get away with almost no testing or paperwork whatsoever (not even with the FCC if you use pre-certified RF modules).
dragontamer 10y ago
> consumer electronics You're more than welcome to use a Palm Pilot if you really think its better than a Pilot 1000 (Retail Price: $299). I think most people would prefer a modern Moto G5 Plus however. Or any other consumer electronics item really... Gameboy vs Modern "New 3DS". Both cost the same historically. (Well, I got a $99 deal on the 3DS. But the 2DS has been like $79 even when not on sale) > HVAC systems As far as I can tell, they've got a lot cheaper and more efficient in the last 20 years. > Wireless routers I'm pretty sure that the Asus routers around $100 are better than the $100 Linksys routers from 10 years ago. Not just in technology (Modern ASUS routers have 802.11ac), but just... they are easier to work with and seem to have significantly better antennas. And all of these numbers don't even account for inflation!

wazoox 10y ago

I beg to disagree. My car is a 2009 Volvo S60. The climate controls are far superior to all the tactile screen unusable crap I see on all current cars. I'm not much confident that the new displays replacing the old dials will last as long, too. OK, the GPS in my car is useless, but nobody uses the built-in GPS anyway, but Google maps or Waze so who cares? The only lacking feature is a highly automated cruise-control. That's too bad, but when I see the horrible, horrible UI in my colleague's brand new Mercedes GLC (and the bugs! the bugs! in a 70K€ car!) I don't regret it :)

lostlogin 10y ago
That's the "likely" section addressed. Safer and more fuel efficient is still correct (unless it's a VW).

yardie 10y ago

You could say the same for practically any modern appliance, consumer electronics, computer and the price would be 25-50% than 10 years ago. 10 years ago I had a chocolate bar phone that just did email for $99. Now I can get a cheap Android that does way more than email for $50. These gains in technology and automation don't appear to be reflected in car manufacturing. Also the car I bought 10 years ago was $15k. Fuel efficiency hasn't changed that much, safety standards either. But now, to make the price appear appealing I'm expected to make 60 (5 years) payments rather than 38 (3 years).

coredog64 10y ago
> Fuel efficiency hasn't changed that much, safety standards either. CAFE essentially puts a ceiling on fuel economy, so instead of getting a more efficient car of the same size, fuel economy is held constant and the size of the car (or its performance) increases. As for safety, MY2008+ vehicles are required to have TPMS. Next year backup cameras will be required by the NHTSA. It's not a legal requirement, but electronic stability control is available on many more current models than 10 years ago.

st3v3r 10y ago

But that's not really due to automation. That's due to R&D.