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Adam from Kite here. Thanks for all the feedback and encouragement around the launch today. We're excited to be opening up Kite for everyone to download today.

Adam from Kite here. Thanks for all the feedback and encouragement around the launch today. We're excited to be opening up Kite for everyone to download today. When we launched Kite here on hackernews almost a year ago we were blown away by the enthusiasm for our smart copilot vision. Over 65,000 of you signed up for Kite in the first 72 hours, and over the past year we've been working with many of you to deliver that vision. It's taken a momentous effort, but today we're ready to take off the wrapping paper and open up Kite to the world. Here's what we've been working on: * Deep editor integrations: to make Kite better for smaller screens and more integrated into the coding workflow. You no longer have to dedicate a sidebar of your screen to Kite; instead, recommendations from Kite replace your editor’s autocompletions and hover results. * Fine-grained privacy controls modeled after the .gitignore file format means that you can selectively and precisely decide which files and folders Kite indexes. * Next generation type inference engine that uses both static analysis and statistical inference over Github. Kite beats PyCharm and Jedi by 32% on a typical Django project, offering more completions when you need them. * Ranked completions which put the most relevant completions at the top of the autocomplete box using techniques traditionally used in web search. * Kite for Windows. (And Linux in testing!) Check it out at kite.com.

djsumdog 10y ago
Does Kite still send all your code to Kite servers as you type? I remember that being an issue the last time someone talked about Kite on HN. I'm find with an editor or sidekick that can search stack overflow or duckduckgo or google quickly with a hotkey-- maybe keep snippets you can tag and easily reference-- but sending all my code as I type to a web service is something I'm not willing to do and something most companies won't allow.
- StyloBill 10y ago
  I think the answer to your question is : "* Fine-grained privacy controls modeled after the .gitignore file format means that you can selectively and precisely decide which files and folders Kite indexes."
  - Karunamon 10y ago
    Unfortunately, that means that a really simple app where a developer hardcoded something like an API key, and didn't put it in a separate file they told Kite to ignore, will get uploaded. Any system that relies on people following best practices is doomed in the real world :(
    - Cyph0n 10y ago
      You mean like Git?
      - Karunamon 10y ago
        Git isn't generally configured to automatically upload your files as you type or as files are saved. There are things like GitFS, but I imagine those aren't part of an average developer's workflow.
        Cyph0n 10y ago
        My point is that an inexperienced Git user can push their secrets to Github for example, just like a Kite user who doesn't specify a .kiteignore.
        Karunamon 10y ago
        My point is that it's a lot easier to happen accidentally when the upload happens automatically and without intervention. With git, you directly specify what files you're committing (with the .gitignore as an additional safety net) and when that commit happens. It's all manual. If I'm testing an app and I want to hard code an API key for testing, and I'm using Github, it's not a problem. I have to explicitly commit that file. Now, I have to both remember that Kite uploads everything, and avoid using that workflow at all, and use the .kiteignore thing (which is another random dotfile in my repo, great).
        Cyph0n 10y ago
- srj55 10y ago
  I would love to use this, but I'm not willing to send my code to Kite.com. Sounds great for open source projects! Sorry.
  - johndevor 10y ago
    They need to offer a downloadable version of everything. I won't use it for this reason as well.
- hundchenkatze 10y ago
  I can't speak to whether they still send up all code as it's typed, but I think, for now, they're addressing this concern by offering Kite Enterprise, https://kite.com/enterprise https://kite.com/enterprise which allows you to run kite on your servers.
- alexflint 10y ago
  (Copied from above.) Totally legit concern. when we started working on this we realized if we wanted to index tens of thousands of libraries, we wouldn't be able to ship the entire index along with the client. Hence the cloud-based architecture. We've thought a lot about privacy and written up our thoughts here: kite.com/security. The short answer is: we don't index anything on your computer that you don't explicitly ask us to, and our plan is to earn trust the hard (i.e. only) way: transparency, published policies, and a track record of good decision making. One of the big things we've worked on over the past few months is giving users fine grained control of which files are indexed by kite: - Kite only indexes directories that you have explicitly enabled - You can create a .kiteignore file (same semantics as .gitignore) to exclude specific files / patterns.
  - andy_ppp 10y ago
    Would it be possible to allow a # nokite at the end of lines; these would then have any strings scrambled. This allows me to know immediately that things aren't being sent to Kite rather than have to do a few checks before I write something secret.
    - sroussey 10y ago
      Actually, it should just remove strings if it does not already.
    - alexflint 10y ago
      Good idea - will look into it.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - hasenj 10y ago
    How many GBs would the database take on a local machine? Wouldn't it be possible to pick and choose what libraries to include in it? I'd rather have a few gigabytes on my machine than have all the code I write automatically in the cloud.
  - 10y ago
curiousgal 10y ago
> And Linux in testing! Awesome!
m_fayer 10y ago
This looks truly useful and innovative, well done! Two things come to mind, apologies if they're already addressed: The sidebar jumping around in the corner of my eye sounds really distracting, I wonder if there's some way to manually tell it to "update" or some other UX trick to ameliorate that, because the concept is great. I work in the healthcare sector, and I hope you guys do or will have the reams of datasec declarations and certifications needed for this to be usable in such a regulated context.
- adamsmith 10y ago
  Hi there! We've done two things to address the sidebar motion issue: 1) We've improved the sidebar's motion with an updated layout that creates fewer visual changes, and 2) We've been building deeper integration into the editors, with new UX around completions and looking things up. Check out the new demo video on the homepage—we think you'll like it! : ) Regarding datasec, unfortunately we haven't gotten to that level of security certifications yet, but we hope to get there soon!
jcwayne 10y ago
This would be a winner if the indexing were done locally and only usage data regarding public packages were sent to kite.com
mehaveaccount 10y ago
My first time hearing this. I would love to drop some coin if it improves my life, and I think a service like Kite was just waiting for someone to make it happen. I'll test out your demo version today to see if it helps
Bedon292 10y ago
How intertwined is the completion and the indexing? Could I .kiteignore * and then still use the functionality for completion and documentation on public code? Would it just send API calls based on the functions I am calling or something like that? I cannot send my code to you, nor will I be able to convince my company to pay for an enterprise version. I would pay for a personal version that has some sort of controls in place though. Can you not have it just cache locally based on the requirements.txt or the import lines at the top of the file? Then all you know is what I am importing, and I would be fine with that. Anything more, and sorry, can't do it.
devy 10y ago
How do I kill "com.kite.KiteHelper" from memory? It keeps reviving.
heroprotagonist 10y ago
This is tempting, particularly when learning new libraries, but it seems like it could be resolved with an offline database at some point instead of a hosted cloud service. This would probably improve performance a bit (in terms of responsiveness, rather than accuracy). I can see where you might want to index all of my code to add to your store of information about how frequently various functions are used, because "more is better" in terms of training data, but there are plenty of open-source projects that could be polled instead. For my own code, why not simply analyze my existing projects on my own machine without sending it elsewhere? It's pretty laughable that when one clicks through to the security page, the very first thing beyond the heading of "Security. Built in." is "Kite is Cloud Powered." as though that were a feature instead of a liability. While directory whitelisting and a .kiteignore seem like decent ways to prevent code from leaking, it's only one small bug away from disclosing a company's proprietary secret sauce to unknowns entities.
cdnsteve 10y ago
Very nice editor add-on. Looking forward to the Enterprise info as more becomes available.
AtheistOfFail 10y ago
I know this is your baby and all, but how high was your team (high as a kite?) when they thought sending every line of code to your server was a good idea? Seriously, could just send the object type being "autocompleted"along with the other object types in the same file and gotten better results without the privacy backlash.
- ako 10y ago
  Is it really that much worse than having code on a private GitHub repository or pushing Python code to a paas platform like pivotal?
  - AtheistOfFail 10y ago
    True, but Github and a PaaS platform tell you that your data is leaving your computer. It isn't something that happens in the background from a simple autocomplete application. The other thing is that a proper 12-factor app separates secrets and keys into environment variables that are not committed to Github or your PaaS. They are added after a deployment which this "product" just scoops up. For reference, here's what a AWS key being leaked on Github leads to (https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/06/dev_blunder_shows_github_crawling_with_keyslurping_bots/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/06/dev_blunder_shows_g...). Now, imagine that project that is running in production having to be brought offline because this company leaks thousands of AWS keys that were used in development. It's dangerous, sloppy and stupid, three things I generally try not to mix.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

djsumdog 10y ago

Does Kite still send all your code to Kite servers as you type? I remember that being an issue the last time someone talked about Kite on HN. I'm find with an editor or sidekick that can search stack overflow or duckduckgo or google quickly with a hotkey-- maybe keep snippets you can tag and easily reference-- but sending all my code as I type to a web service is something I'm not willing to do and something most companies won't allow.

StyloBill 10y ago
I think the answer to your question is : "* Fine-grained privacy controls modeled after the .gitignore file format means that you can selectively and precisely decide which files and folders Kite indexes."
- Karunamon 10y ago
  Unfortunately, that means that a really simple app where a developer hardcoded something like an API key, and didn't put it in a separate file they told Kite to ignore, will get uploaded. Any system that relies on people following best practices is doomed in the real world :(
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    You mean like Git?
    - Karunamon 10y ago
      Git isn't generally configured to automatically upload your files as you type or as files are saved. There are things like GitFS, but I imagine those aren't part of an average developer's workflow.
      - Cyph0n 10y ago
        My point is that an inexperienced Git user can push their secrets to Github for example, just like a Kite user who doesn't specify a .kiteignore.
        Karunamon 10y ago
        My point is that it's a lot easier to happen accidentally when the upload happens automatically and without intervention. With git, you directly specify what files you're committing (with the .gitignore as an additional safety net) and when that commit happens. It's all manual. If I'm testing an app and I want to hard code an API key for testing, and I'm using Github, it's not a problem. I have to explicitly commit that file. Now, I have to both remember that Kite uploads everything, and avoid using that workflow at all, and use the .kiteignore thing (which is another random dotfile in my repo, great).
        Cyph0n 10y ago
srj55 10y ago
I would love to use this, but I'm not willing to send my code to Kite.com. Sounds great for open source projects! Sorry.
- johndevor 10y ago
  They need to offer a downloadable version of everything. I won't use it for this reason as well.
hundchenkatze 10y ago
I can't speak to whether they still send up all code as it's typed, but I think, for now, they're addressing this concern by offering Kite Enterprise, https://kite.com/enterprise https://kite.com/enterprise which allows you to run kite on your servers.
alexflint 10y ago
(Copied from above.) Totally legit concern. when we started working on this we realized if we wanted to index tens of thousands of libraries, we wouldn't be able to ship the entire index along with the client. Hence the cloud-based architecture. We've thought a lot about privacy and written up our thoughts here: kite.com/security. The short answer is: we don't index anything on your computer that you don't explicitly ask us to, and our plan is to earn trust the hard (i.e. only) way: transparency, published policies, and a track record of good decision making. One of the big things we've worked on over the past few months is giving users fine grained control of which files are indexed by kite: - Kite only indexes directories that you have explicitly enabled - You can create a .kiteignore file (same semantics as .gitignore) to exclude specific files / patterns.
- andy_ppp 10y ago
  Would it be possible to allow a # nokite at the end of lines; these would then have any strings scrambled. This allows me to know immediately that things aren't being sent to Kite rather than have to do a few checks before I write something secret.
  - sroussey 10y ago
    Actually, it should just remove strings if it does not already.
  - alexflint 10y ago
    Good idea - will look into it.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- hasenj 10y ago
  How many GBs would the database take on a local machine? Wouldn't it be possible to pick and choose what libraries to include in it? I'd rather have a few gigabytes on my machine than have all the code I write automatically in the cloud.
- 10y ago

curiousgal 10y ago

> And Linux in testing! Awesome!

m_fayer 10y ago

This looks truly useful and innovative, well done! Two things come to mind, apologies if they're already addressed: The sidebar jumping around in the corner of my eye sounds really distracting, I wonder if there's some way to manually tell it to "update" or some other UX trick to ameliorate that, because the concept is great. I work in the healthcare sector, and I hope you guys do or will have the reams of datasec declarations and certifications needed for this to be usable in such a regulated context.

adamsmith 10y ago
Hi there! We've done two things to address the sidebar motion issue: 1) We've improved the sidebar's motion with an updated layout that creates fewer visual changes, and 2) We've been building deeper integration into the editors, with new UX around completions and looking things up. Check out the new demo video on the homepage—we think you'll like it! : ) Regarding datasec, unfortunately we haven't gotten to that level of security certifications yet, but we hope to get there soon!

jcwayne 10y ago

This would be a winner if the indexing were done locally and only usage data regarding public packages were sent to kite.com

mehaveaccount 10y ago

My first time hearing this. I would love to drop some coin if it improves my life, and I think a service like Kite was just waiting for someone to make it happen. I'll test out your demo version today to see if it helps

Bedon292 10y ago

How intertwined is the completion and the indexing? Could I .kiteignore * and then still use the functionality for completion and documentation on public code? Would it just send API calls based on the functions I am calling or something like that? I cannot send my code to you, nor will I be able to convince my company to pay for an enterprise version. I would pay for a personal version that has some sort of controls in place though. Can you not have it just cache locally based on the requirements.txt or the import lines at the top of the file? Then all you know is what I am importing, and I would be fine with that. Anything more, and sorry, can't do it.

devy 10y ago

How do I kill "com.kite.KiteHelper" from memory? It keeps reviving.

heroprotagonist 10y ago

This is tempting, particularly when learning new libraries, but it seems like it could be resolved with an offline database at some point instead of a hosted cloud service. This would probably improve performance a bit (in terms of responsiveness, rather than accuracy). I can see where you might want to index all of my code to add to your store of information about how frequently various functions are used, because "more is better" in terms of training data, but there are plenty of open-source projects that could be polled instead. For my own code, why not simply analyze my existing projects on my own machine without sending it elsewhere? It's pretty laughable that when one clicks through to the security page, the very first thing beyond the heading of "Security. Built in." is "Kite is Cloud Powered." as though that were a feature instead of a liability. While directory whitelisting and a .kiteignore seem like decent ways to prevent code from leaking, it's only one small bug away from disclosing a company's proprietary secret sauce to unknowns entities.

cdnsteve 10y ago

Very nice editor add-on. Looking forward to the Enterprise info as more becomes available.

AtheistOfFail 10y ago

I know this is your baby and all, but how high was your team (high as a kite?) when they thought sending every line of code to your server was a good idea? Seriously, could just send the object type being "autocompleted"along with the other object types in the same file and gotten better results without the privacy backlash.

ako 10y ago
Is it really that much worse than having code on a private GitHub repository or pushing Python code to a paas platform like pivotal?
- AtheistOfFail 10y ago
  True, but Github and a PaaS platform tell you that your data is leaving your computer. It isn't something that happens in the background from a simple autocomplete application. The other thing is that a proper 12-factor app separates secrets and keys into environment variables that are not committed to Github or your PaaS. They are added after a deployment which this "product" just scoops up. For reference, here's what a AWS key being leaked on Github leads to (https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/06/dev_blunder_shows_github_crawling_with_keyslurping_bots/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/06/dev_blunder_shows_g...). Now, imagine that project that is running in production having to be brought offline because this company leaks thousands of AWS keys that were used in development. It's dangerous, sloppy and stupid, three things I generally try not to mix.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]