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Coal isn't the cheapest [1]. Natural gas is cheaper because of fracking. Renewables have been reported to be cheaper than fossil fuels for the first time in 201

Coal isn't the cheapest [1]. Natural gas is cheaper because of fracking. Renewables have been reported to be cheaper than fossil fuels for the first time in 2016 [2]. Electric vehicles are cleaner than gasoline cars almost regardless of where the electricity comes from [3]. I think in Missouri EV are on-par with gas because Missouri has the dirtiest power plants. [1] http://wolfstreet.com/2016/06/13/why-us-coal-production-collapsed-to-lowest-level-since-1981/ http://wolfstreet.com/2016/06/13/why-us-coal-production-coll... [2] https://qz.com/871907/2016-was-the-year-solar-panels-finally-became-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-just-wait-for-2017/ https://qz.com/871907/2016-was-the-year-solar-panels-finally... [3] http://midwestenergynews.com/2016/04/20/minnesota-study-challenges-coal-car-claims-about-electric-vehicles/ http://midwestenergynews.com/2016/04/20/minnesota-study-chal...

oblio 10y ago
Ok, natural gas is cheaper. Great, we've just moved the goal posts from "hell" to "purgatory", since fracking is still very harmful for the environment. My main point was that a centralized environment comes with its own downsides, the main one being inertia.
- heygrady 10y ago
  Renewable power generation may already be cost competitive with fossil fuels [1]. It's gaining popularity in developing nations for this reason [6]. Natural gas, which is leaked heavily during fracking [2], is an order of magnitude more harmful than CO2 in the short term [3]. But it breaks down far faster in the atmosphere [4] and is comparatively better than coal when it's burned [5]. Thankfully, fossil fuels are losing to cleaner technologies [6]. Cheap renewables, like solar, allow EV owners to opt-out of centralized power generation and charge their cars with clean power [7]. One could argue that this is the entire business model of Tesla [8]. [1] http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/power/renewable-power-generation-technologies-are-now-cost-competitive-with-fossil-fuels-lloyds-register/articleshow/57064173.cms http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/power/re... [2] https://thinkprogress.org/methane-leaks-erase-climate-benefit-of-fracked-gas-countless-studies-find-8b060b2b395d https://thinkprogress.org/methane-leaks-erase-climate-benefi... [3] https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/understanding-global-warming-potentials https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/understanding-global-warmin... [4] https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-methane-once-it-is-released-into-the-atmosphere https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-methane-once-it-is-rel... [5] http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/coal-and-other-fossil-fuels/environmental-impacts-of-natural-gas http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/coal-and-other-fossil-fue... [6] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/03/24/clean-energy-is-winning-the-race-against-fossil-fuels-but-the-planet-is-still-losing/?utm_term=.75f89092ab96 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20... [7] https://www.wired.com/2011/11/evs-go-off-grid/ https://www.wired.com/2011/11/evs-go-off-grid/ [8] https://www.wired.com/2016/06/tesla-solar-city-elon-musk/ https://www.wired.com/2016/06/tesla-solar-city-elon-musk/

oblio 10y ago

Ok, natural gas is cheaper. Great, we've just moved the goal posts from "hell" to "purgatory", since fracking is still very harmful for the environment. My main point was that a centralized environment comes with its own downsides, the main one being inertia.

heygrady 10y ago
Renewable power generation may already be cost competitive with fossil fuels [1]. It's gaining popularity in developing nations for this reason [6]. Natural gas, which is leaked heavily during fracking [2], is an order of magnitude more harmful than CO2 in the short term [3]. But it breaks down far faster in the atmosphere [4] and is comparatively better than coal when it's burned [5]. Thankfully, fossil fuels are losing to cleaner technologies [6]. Cheap renewables, like solar, allow EV owners to opt-out of centralized power generation and charge their cars with clean power [7]. One could argue that this is the entire business model of Tesla [8]. [1] http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/power/renewable-power-generation-technologies-are-now-cost-competitive-with-fossil-fuels-lloyds-register/articleshow/57064173.cms http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/power/re... [2] https://thinkprogress.org/methane-leaks-erase-climate-benefit-of-fracked-gas-countless-studies-find-8b060b2b395d https://thinkprogress.org/methane-leaks-erase-climate-benefi... [3] https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/understanding-global-warming-potentials https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/understanding-global-warmin... [4] https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-methane-once-it-is-released-into-the-atmosphere https://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-methane-once-it-is-rel... [5] http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/coal-and-other-fossil-fuels/environmental-impacts-of-natural-gas http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/coal-and-other-fossil-fue... [6] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/03/24/clean-energy-is-winning-the-race-against-fossil-fuels-but-the-planet-is-still-losing/?utm_term=.75f89092ab96 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20... [7] https://www.wired.com/2011/11/evs-go-off-grid/ https://www.wired.com/2011/11/evs-go-off-grid/ [8] https://www.wired.com/2016/06/tesla-solar-city-elon-musk/ https://www.wired.com/2016/06/tesla-solar-city-elon-musk/