6 ms·

I want a job where I pick my next promotion between salary raise and more time off. I dont want a 10k raise. I want a halfday friday from now on.

rubicon33 10y ago
I know someone who negotiated a 4 day work week as part of a new job. He took less salary but, in the end, the time was far more valuable. If you're a software engineer, now is the time to start asking for things like that. If you don't think you'll ever get it at your current job, start looking elsewhere. It's possible, albeit, unlikely.
- jharger 10y ago
  This sounds amazing, but it also kind of scares me. How do you enforce your employment agreement so that they don't just eventually increase your work week to 5 days and keep you at the same lower salary?
  - xyzzyz 10y ago
    You put it into the employment contract, and in any case, you can always leave.
    - pc86 10y ago
      Most places don't have employment contracts. The short answer is you can't. Your boss is always within his or her right to tell you that you have to stay. You're 100% within your right to say "no" and walk out of the door.
      - xyzzyz 10y ago
        By "you can leave" I mean you can quit and find new employment.
      - pdeuchler 10y ago
        >> Most places don't have employment contracts. Wait, what?! I'm on the younger side, even for a forum like this, and I've had an employment contract for every job I've ever had... even as an intern, short term contractor, or just summer jobs in high school. I'd immediately walk away from any offer that didn't include an employment contract. Not putting your terms of employment in writing can only result in you, the employee, getting exploited. There are no positives.
        phil21 10y ago
        He means an actual contract, not the US 'contract' which is just the equivalent of you signing a bunch of click-through EULAs stating they have the right to fire you for any reason at any time. I've worked a job with a real contract once in my career. I'm not sure I would do it again. Not being able to quit is a strange feeling, even though there is quite a lot of consideration in return. In the end I opted to not renew and go back to a simple at-will agreement, since I kind of resented the lack of freedom it gave me. A real contract actually means they must pay the full length regardless of if they fire you, save of course for specific "for cause" reasons outlined in the agreement.
  - tokai 10y ago
    >How do you enforce your employment agreement so that they don't just eventually increase your work week to 5 days and keep you at the same lower salary? Through unions and collective bargaining.
- soulnothing 10y ago
  I tried this back in Philly. I asked for 3 13s or 4 10s. With 75% of the discussed salary, I was fully expecting to go down to 70%. If I'm left the hell alone, I get a majority of my sprint work done in the first few days. Barring tedium, like upgrading network vendor devices. The most common answer was click. They just hung up on me. I burned several recruiting firms. Telling me I was not passionate about this career choice. I was also told about several companies. How dare I think I was special, and that I didn't commit to the team culture. My explanation was that to fully exercise my mind I have a variety of hobbies that eat up time. I'm working on a novel, acting, etc. They're not competing, but they provide benefit to the company. Nope. I approach this one with real caution now.
  - ianleeclark 10y ago
    Just curious, but why would you expect lower salary for essentially the same time being worked?
    - soulnothing 10y ago
      I've found something has got to give. Asking for a WFH day, or working a special schedule. Because you're not a team player, not willing to work with everyone else. You're viewed from the get go as a problem. In turn since your not the ideal candidate, you'll be paid less. I started asking for 90% of base comp, and that actually resulted in some yelling. I view this all as bupkus. But so many companies want 40 hours a butt in a seat, in case something is on fire.
      - mjevans 10y ago
        That is what they /say/ isn't it, but what they actually want is the thought of someone being "full time" as if they can use that person 24/7 by paying for them "full time". They're misunderstanding the meaning of the phrase. Real //coverage// requires shifts of multiple people for the same job. "Being reachable", used to involve special extra pay just for the option of being called in (actual pay).
- pc86 10y ago
  I wouldn't even say it's unlikely as long as you're an asset to the company. But keep in mind even a half day off every week at the same rate is approximately the same as a 10% raise. How often to companies give out 10% raises? And negotiating from 4.5 to 4 is certainly going to be even harder. However if your boss offers you a 5% raise and you counter with a 5% pay cut and you're out the door at noon every on the last work day of every week, you'd be surprised how willing they would be do to that.
- mysterydip 10y ago
  My previous job I was working 5 days a week plus some nights and many weekends because they didn't have the staff for an actual functional on-call rotation. My current job is a compressed work shedule: 9hr days but every other friday off. The friday I do work is 8hrs. And no on-call. I can actually do errands and appointments and spend time with family without taking a vacation day. I love it.

rubicon33 10y ago

I know someone who negotiated a 4 day work week as part of a new job. He took less salary but, in the end, the time was far more valuable. If you're a software engineer, now is the time to start asking for things like that. If you don't think you'll ever get it at your current job, start looking elsewhere. It's possible, albeit, unlikely.

jharger 10y ago
This sounds amazing, but it also kind of scares me. How do you enforce your employment agreement so that they don't just eventually increase your work week to 5 days and keep you at the same lower salary?
- xyzzyz 10y ago
  You put it into the employment contract, and in any case, you can always leave.
  - pc86 10y ago
    Most places don't have employment contracts. The short answer is you can't. Your boss is always within his or her right to tell you that you have to stay. You're 100% within your right to say "no" and walk out of the door.
    - xyzzyz 10y ago
      By "you can leave" I mean you can quit and find new employment.
    - pdeuchler 10y ago
      >> Most places don't have employment contracts. Wait, what?! I'm on the younger side, even for a forum like this, and I've had an employment contract for every job I've ever had... even as an intern, short term contractor, or just summer jobs in high school. I'd immediately walk away from any offer that didn't include an employment contract. Not putting your terms of employment in writing can only result in you, the employee, getting exploited. There are no positives.
      - phil21 10y ago
        He means an actual contract, not the US 'contract' which is just the equivalent of you signing a bunch of click-through EULAs stating they have the right to fire you for any reason at any time. I've worked a job with a real contract once in my career. I'm not sure I would do it again. Not being able to quit is a strange feeling, even though there is quite a lot of consideration in return. In the end I opted to not renew and go back to a simple at-will agreement, since I kind of resented the lack of freedom it gave me. A real contract actually means they must pay the full length regardless of if they fire you, save of course for specific "for cause" reasons outlined in the agreement.
- tokai 10y ago
  >How do you enforce your employment agreement so that they don't just eventually increase your work week to 5 days and keep you at the same lower salary? Through unions and collective bargaining.
soulnothing 10y ago
I tried this back in Philly. I asked for 3 13s or 4 10s. With 75% of the discussed salary, I was fully expecting to go down to 70%. If I'm left the hell alone, I get a majority of my sprint work done in the first few days. Barring tedium, like upgrading network vendor devices. The most common answer was click. They just hung up on me. I burned several recruiting firms. Telling me I was not passionate about this career choice. I was also told about several companies. How dare I think I was special, and that I didn't commit to the team culture. My explanation was that to fully exercise my mind I have a variety of hobbies that eat up time. I'm working on a novel, acting, etc. They're not competing, but they provide benefit to the company. Nope. I approach this one with real caution now.
- ianleeclark 10y ago
  Just curious, but why would you expect lower salary for essentially the same time being worked?
  - soulnothing 10y ago
    I've found something has got to give. Asking for a WFH day, or working a special schedule. Because you're not a team player, not willing to work with everyone else. You're viewed from the get go as a problem. In turn since your not the ideal candidate, you'll be paid less. I started asking for 90% of base comp, and that actually resulted in some yelling. I view this all as bupkus. But so many companies want 40 hours a butt in a seat, in case something is on fire.
    - mjevans 10y ago
      That is what they /say/ isn't it, but what they actually want is the thought of someone being "full time" as if they can use that person 24/7 by paying for them "full time". They're misunderstanding the meaning of the phrase. Real //coverage// requires shifts of multiple people for the same job. "Being reachable", used to involve special extra pay just for the option of being called in (actual pay).
pc86 10y ago
I wouldn't even say it's unlikely as long as you're an asset to the company. But keep in mind even a half day off every week at the same rate is approximately the same as a 10% raise. How often to companies give out 10% raises? And negotiating from 4.5 to 4 is certainly going to be even harder. However if your boss offers you a 5% raise and you counter with a 5% pay cut and you're out the door at noon every on the last work day of every week, you'd be surprised how willing they would be do to that.
mysterydip 10y ago
My previous job I was working 5 days a week plus some nights and many weekends because they didn't have the staff for an actual functional on-call rotation. My current job is a compressed work shedule: 9hr days but every other friday off. The friday I do work is 8hrs. And no on-call. I can actually do errands and appointments and spend time with family without taking a vacation day. I love it.