6 ms·

This articulates a lot of what I've felt in recent years. Here's this syntactically ugly new feature that allows you to save a few lines of code and obfuscates

This articulates a lot of what I've felt in recent years. Here's this syntactically ugly new feature that allows you to save a few lines of code and obfuscates meaning from lesser mortals! Hey let's dispense with those tired old curly brackets and use indentation instead! Let's make a simple scripting language, and then extend it so that it becomes as complex and indecipherable as C++! Hey wouldn't it be a great idea to have a server that runs JavaScript! Try staying up to date when you have to work with a complex suite that tries to run everywhere and jumps on every passing bandwagon. You will then understand why the 'stuff changes, suck it up' argument isn't always valid. At times these days I try to get something done and discover the tools I have at my disposal are just poorly written crap on top of incompatible crap on top of indecipherable crap. No I don't want to use your stupid Jupyter notebook! Just give me the frigging source and a readme! So much stupid and unnecessary complication. I wish I'd just learnt C.

ricardobeat 10y ago
Sorry, but how would C solve your problems? If that's the only thing holding you back, go for it, you can learn it in a few weeks. You won't be able to magically write a data analysis engine or high-concurrency server better than the tools you are complaining about though, in any reasonable amount of time. I think you, like the author, are severely underestimating the gigantic clusterfuck that is writing programs today, and how that would not be solved by merely avoiding writing new code.
- Boothroid 10y ago
  I have done bits of C/C++ and enjoyed it. Thing is I'm more than a decade invested now in geo so a few weeks isn't really enough to reach a similar level. If I were to start all over again I might think about embedded/EE hence C. My post was only half serious really, but I do get frustrated that there seems to be a 'because we can' attitude prevalent, and you just end up with more complexity. I used to thrive on geeking out but these days I just want to get stuff built. More and more I'm finding the tech working against me.
jhall1468 10y ago
I don't understand your point at all. Python has been around since the early 90s, and it's purpose was to make development faster. That has a tangible benefit to consumers: Applications get developed significantly faster. C is powerful, it's also incredibly slow to prototype with. > Hey wouldn't it be a great idea to have a server that runs JavaScript! Who cares? > So much stupid and unnecessary complication. I wish I'd just learnt C. Oh the irony...
- Boothroid 10y ago
  Change for changes' sake is partly what frustrates me. Indents are such a stupid idea IMHO. What was wrong with curly braces?! Certainly Python sticks out in this regard. I also think Python has evolved beyond its initial premise to the point where it has acquired many of the features it was trying to escape from at its inception. When I see all the ugly cruft in the average large Python app/library I start to question. As a developer I care about these things when they pollute my work with their crappiness.. Be that in concept or execution. I'm well aware of C's limitations. My point is that the types of environments in which C prevails are perhaps a little less prone to the latest trendy fad.
  - Nadya 10y ago
    Do you indent your code when you use braces? this { foo: bar; } If so - how is scanning for {} any different than scanning for indentation level? this foo: bar; You'd have a valid point if you wrote code as thus: this { foo: bar; } or this { foo: bar; } If you're using indentation and curly braces - one of the two isn't necessary. In my opinion, indentation alone is more scannable for code blocks than curly braces alone. If I were to drop one - it would be curly braces. I don't find Python all that difficult to read - and I primarily deal with Javascript and C#.
    - Boothroid 10y ago
      I prefer the last. Partly it's not being able to just drop a brace in the right place to make something compile when hacking that bothers me - ohh no, in Python you have to make sure every damn block is aligned correctly.. For a quick and dirty scripting language it sure is pedantic!

ricardobeat 10y ago

Sorry, but how would C solve your problems? If that's the only thing holding you back, go for it, you can learn it in a few weeks. You won't be able to magically write a data analysis engine or high-concurrency server better than the tools you are complaining about though, in any reasonable amount of time. I think you, like the author, are severely underestimating the gigantic clusterfuck that is writing programs today, and how that would not be solved by merely avoiding writing new code.

Boothroid 10y ago
I have done bits of C/C++ and enjoyed it. Thing is I'm more than a decade invested now in geo so a few weeks isn't really enough to reach a similar level. If I were to start all over again I might think about embedded/EE hence C. My post was only half serious really, but I do get frustrated that there seems to be a 'because we can' attitude prevalent, and you just end up with more complexity. I used to thrive on geeking out but these days I just want to get stuff built. More and more I'm finding the tech working against me.

jhall1468 10y ago

I don't understand your point at all. Python has been around since the early 90s, and it's purpose was to make development faster. That has a tangible benefit to consumers: Applications get developed significantly faster. C is powerful, it's also incredibly slow to prototype with. > Hey wouldn't it be a great idea to have a server that runs JavaScript! Who cares? > So much stupid and unnecessary complication. I wish I'd just learnt C. Oh the irony...

Boothroid 10y ago
Change for changes' sake is partly what frustrates me. Indents are such a stupid idea IMHO. What was wrong with curly braces?! Certainly Python sticks out in this regard. I also think Python has evolved beyond its initial premise to the point where it has acquired many of the features it was trying to escape from at its inception. When I see all the ugly cruft in the average large Python app/library I start to question. As a developer I care about these things when they pollute my work with their crappiness.. Be that in concept or execution. I'm well aware of C's limitations. My point is that the types of environments in which C prevails are perhaps a little less prone to the latest trendy fad.
- Nadya 10y ago
  Do you indent your code when you use braces? this { foo: bar; } If so - how is scanning for {} any different than scanning for indentation level? this foo: bar; You'd have a valid point if you wrote code as thus: this { foo: bar; } or this { foo: bar; } If you're using indentation and curly braces - one of the two isn't necessary. In my opinion, indentation alone is more scannable for code blocks than curly braces alone. If I were to drop one - it would be curly braces. I don't find Python all that difficult to read - and I primarily deal with Javascript and C#.
  - Boothroid 10y ago
    I prefer the last. Partly it's not being able to just drop a brace in the right place to make something compile when hacking that bothers me - ohh no, in Python you have to make sure every damn block is aligned correctly.. For a quick and dirty scripting language it sure is pedantic!