5 ms·

Politically motivated climate data deletions

65 points by okket 10y ago

muninn_ 10y ago
So is he sitting there pressing the delete key himself?
- kapauldo 10y ago
  Don't be a defender, you're making it worse.
  - muninn_ 10y ago
    Nah
- kapauldo 10y ago
  Don't be a defender, you're making it worse.
pvaldes 10y ago
Big bonfire of burning books: done What's the next thing in the manual?
- mtreis86 10y ago
  Round up the writers and dissidents
  - mtreis86 10y ago
    If anyone has not yet read The Gulag Archipelago, please brace yourself mentally and do so. A very realistic look at how these things happened at a certain point in recent history.
ada1981 10y ago
This seems to be happening with enough frequency that we citizens of the world ought to create a third party mirror of all gov data so as to withstand leadership transitions and politically motivated deletions. I'd say someone like the UN should coordinate this, but it would probably be better done by a Wikipedia style outfit. Maybe on the block chain. Perhaps we need a DataCoin that fuels keeping this stuff alive. I'm curious how much data we are talking about and how difficult it would be for us to automate backing it up so this sort of issue isn't as devastating. Might also be a way for us to cite data in such a way that it automatically triggers archiving. Ie. Using http://dataarchive.org/govagency.gov/data/numbers http://dataarchive.org/govagency.gov/data/numbers would automatically store the source info as well as last accessibilily information. Ideas?
- throwaway2016a 10y ago
  Replying to you to clarify the article since you are the top voted comment and I think it might lend itself to other people making conclusions they shouldn't without reading the article. While I agree with you, I'm not sure that is the case here. The research is not deleted in this case, just literally the citations. Here it sounds more like: Either A. People editing citations in articles need to be less lazy and relocate missing sources or B. Research sites need to follow proper SEO best practice and use 301 redirects when they move files
  - mdekkers 10y ago
    RTFA - Data is actually being deleted, along with citations.
    - ada1981 10y ago
      Right this seems like what is going on. Or at the least, things were publicly accessible and now are not so there is no way of knowing if these data sets are alive somewhere.
    - throwaway2016a 10y ago
      I did RTFA and this paragraph threw me off: > All in all, emails about defunct links of sites that weren’t saved are annoying, but harmless. Finding archived materials to replace them add maybe 20 minutes of internet searches to my day – and a bit of anger at the state of the country. The way I read that was that the articles still existed elsewhere. But reading the article again I can see they are referring to other people's citations of the things that are deleted. Also, the title itself: > I am an Arctic researcher. Donald Trump is deleting my citations Citation is defined by the dictionary as: > "a quotation from or reference to a book, paper, or author, especially in a scholarly work." Not the source data. So my apologies. I misread what the author was intending to say. But in defense if the author was intending to say that then the word citation in the title is used completely wrong. (or scientist have a different definition which I find odd) Actually readying the article again. I am still not sure I was not right the first time. Deleting a citation is NOT deleting the source material. Deleting "cited material" is.
asdfologist 10y ago
Can the Trump supporters here explain why this is a good idea? I'm genuinely curious.
- najati83 10y ago
  Biting the bait: having voted for someone doesn't mean you agree with everything he promises and then with everything he does after he's been elected.
- konceptz 10y ago
  I can play devil's advocate. The data is falsified and needs to be removed.
  - ItendToDisagree 10y ago
    Falsified according to who? The many well known and respected researchers the Trump Administration has consulted? Oh ideologues who want to score political points? Got it.
    - konceptz 10y ago
      Right, so now the conversation has moved away from the deletion of data.
      - ItendToDisagree 10y ago
        Politickz iz amazing rite?! :)
  - throwaway2016a 10y ago
    To which one could say that's not how science works. You don't sweep bad science under the rug, you publish the research to the contrary. From a scientific perspective it is the wrong approach. From a social perspective, It's like burning books you don't agree with. Neither works for more than a short time.
- 10y ago
sundvor 10y ago
"The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive." I have no words.
refurb 10y ago
Exactly what was deleted? On what website? I can't tell from the article.
Robadob 10y ago
They don't actually make clear where the information has been deleted from. But to me it sounds alot like the big fuss at the inauguration when Obama's Whitehouse website was archived and replaced with Trump's. The stated 'The US National Strategy for the Arctic' and 'Implementation Plan for the Strategy', both sound like Obama policy which would have subsequently have been archived. Blaming Trump for this is facile at best. http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/20/politics/obama-white-house-website/ http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/20/politics/obama-white-house...
- ItendToDisagree 10y ago
  What is the functional difference between 'deleted' and 'archived but not available for anyone to view' or is there one?
  - Turing_Machine 10y ago
    The entire Obama Whitehouse site is still available for viewing at https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/ https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/ The Obama administration sites were moved to the National Archives and Trump started over with new sites. That's exactly the same thing that happened when Bush II and Clinton left office (Clinton was the first to have a web site, so we don't have any precedent before that). Nothing has been "deleted". Oddly, no one seemed to screech when Obama "deleted" all the material from the Bush II administration. Why not?
- acqq 10y ago
  What you name "stated" was only "on January 21th." The article then continues: "Since January, the surge has transformed into a slow, incessant march of deleting datasets, webpages and policies about the Arctic." So it's not just the text of the policies. You make it appear as only policies are mentioned.
patrickg_zill 10y ago
so... they're not her citations in the sense of "things that I have written" but instead, changed or modified websites that now have dead links, with no pointers to the data. I had the same problem this morning in looking for some old Mac software...
- throwaway2016a 10y ago
  Thank you for being one of the only people to bring up the point of the article. It means the actual citations not the work being cited. However, as the article points out, it is possible (perhaps even easy) to hunt down updated links to the research. Instead they were deleted. If that was done to a Wikipedia article the article would be flagged and either the text deleted or the link fixed. So in a sense Wikipedia has much higher standards. If anything this is a fable of SEO. Why you should always make sure your legacy URLs provide proper 301 redirects.

65 points by okket 10y ago

muninn_ 10y ago

So is he sitting there pressing the delete key himself?

kapauldo 10y ago
Don't be a defender, you're making it worse.
- muninn_ 10y ago
  Nah
kapauldo 10y ago
Don't be a defender, you're making it worse.

pvaldes 10y ago

Big bonfire of burning books: done What's the next thing in the manual?

mtreis86 10y ago
Round up the writers and dissidents
- mtreis86 10y ago
  If anyone has not yet read The Gulag Archipelago, please brace yourself mentally and do so. A very realistic look at how these things happened at a certain point in recent history.

ada1981 10y ago

This seems to be happening with enough frequency that we citizens of the world ought to create a third party mirror of all gov data so as to withstand leadership transitions and politically motivated deletions. I'd say someone like the UN should coordinate this, but it would probably be better done by a Wikipedia style outfit. Maybe on the block chain. Perhaps we need a DataCoin that fuels keeping this stuff alive. I'm curious how much data we are talking about and how difficult it would be for us to automate backing it up so this sort of issue isn't as devastating. Might also be a way for us to cite data in such a way that it automatically triggers archiving. Ie. Using http://dataarchive.org/govagency.gov/data/numbers http://dataarchive.org/govagency.gov/data/numbers would automatically store the source info as well as last accessibilily information. Ideas?

throwaway2016a 10y ago
Replying to you to clarify the article since you are the top voted comment and I think it might lend itself to other people making conclusions they shouldn't without reading the article. While I agree with you, I'm not sure that is the case here. The research is not deleted in this case, just literally the citations. Here it sounds more like: Either A. People editing citations in articles need to be less lazy and relocate missing sources or B. Research sites need to follow proper SEO best practice and use 301 redirects when they move files
- mdekkers 10y ago
  RTFA - Data is actually being deleted, along with citations.
  - ada1981 10y ago
    Right this seems like what is going on. Or at the least, things were publicly accessible and now are not so there is no way of knowing if these data sets are alive somewhere.
  - throwaway2016a 10y ago
    I did RTFA and this paragraph threw me off: > All in all, emails about defunct links of sites that weren’t saved are annoying, but harmless. Finding archived materials to replace them add maybe 20 minutes of internet searches to my day – and a bit of anger at the state of the country. The way I read that was that the articles still existed elsewhere. But reading the article again I can see they are referring to other people's citations of the things that are deleted. Also, the title itself: > I am an Arctic researcher. Donald Trump is deleting my citations Citation is defined by the dictionary as: > "a quotation from or reference to a book, paper, or author, especially in a scholarly work." Not the source data. So my apologies. I misread what the author was intending to say. But in defense if the author was intending to say that then the word citation in the title is used completely wrong. (or scientist have a different definition which I find odd) Actually readying the article again. I am still not sure I was not right the first time. Deleting a citation is NOT deleting the source material. Deleting "cited material" is.

asdfologist 10y ago

Can the Trump supporters here explain why this is a good idea? I'm genuinely curious.

najati83 10y ago
Biting the bait: having voted for someone doesn't mean you agree with everything he promises and then with everything he does after he's been elected.
konceptz 10y ago
I can play devil's advocate. The data is falsified and needs to be removed.
- ItendToDisagree 10y ago
  Falsified according to who? The many well known and respected researchers the Trump Administration has consulted? Oh ideologues who want to score political points? Got it.
  - konceptz 10y ago
    Right, so now the conversation has moved away from the deletion of data.
    - ItendToDisagree 10y ago
      Politickz iz amazing rite?! :)
- throwaway2016a 10y ago
  To which one could say that's not how science works. You don't sweep bad science under the rug, you publish the research to the contrary. From a scientific perspective it is the wrong approach. From a social perspective, It's like burning books you don't agree with. Neither works for more than a short time.
10y ago

sundvor 10y ago

"The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive." I have no words.

refurb 10y ago

Exactly what was deleted? On what website? I can't tell from the article.

Robadob 10y ago

They don't actually make clear where the information has been deleted from. But to me it sounds alot like the big fuss at the inauguration when Obama's Whitehouse website was archived and replaced with Trump's. The stated 'The US National Strategy for the Arctic' and 'Implementation Plan for the Strategy', both sound like Obama policy which would have subsequently have been archived. Blaming Trump for this is facile at best. http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/20/politics/obama-white-house-website/ http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/20/politics/obama-white-house...

ItendToDisagree 10y ago
What is the functional difference between 'deleted' and 'archived but not available for anyone to view' or is there one?
- Turing_Machine 10y ago
  The entire Obama Whitehouse site is still available for viewing at https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/ https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/ The Obama administration sites were moved to the National Archives and Trump started over with new sites. That's exactly the same thing that happened when Bush II and Clinton left office (Clinton was the first to have a web site, so we don't have any precedent before that). Nothing has been "deleted". Oddly, no one seemed to screech when Obama "deleted" all the material from the Bush II administration. Why not?
acqq 10y ago
What you name "stated" was only "on January 21th." The article then continues: "Since January, the surge has transformed into a slow, incessant march of deleting datasets, webpages and policies about the Arctic." So it's not just the text of the policies. You make it appear as only policies are mentioned.

patrickg_zill 10y ago

so... they're not her citations in the sense of "things that I have written" but instead, changed or modified websites that now have dead links, with no pointers to the data. I had the same problem this morning in looking for some old Mac software...

throwaway2016a 10y ago
Thank you for being one of the only people to bring up the point of the article. It means the actual citations not the work being cited. However, as the article points out, it is possible (perhaps even easy) to hunt down updated links to the research. Instead they were deleted. If that was done to a Wikipedia article the article would be flagged and either the text deleted or the link fixed. So in a sense Wikipedia has much higher standards. If anything this is a fable of SEO. Why you should always make sure your legacy URLs provide proper 301 redirects.