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Watts also said you are the Big Bang. Think of an ink bottle thrown at the wall and BOOM ink goes in every direction on the wall, and the tiny little bits of in

Watts also said you are the Big Bang. Think of an ink bottle thrown at the wall and BOOM ink goes in every direction on the wall, and the tiny little bits of ink at the ends are us. We are the Big Bang, and before it went boom it was 1 solid object. That's the "real you" that can never die. And the illusion you have for 100 years is that you are this separate create called a human with the name John Smith etc etc. but it's all intentional amnesia by the real you. Because, try this, it's absolutely impossible to surprise yourself. You can't sneak up on yourself and go boo and actually be surprised. You need someone else. So, just for fun, the real you broke into different selves. And once you realize this (satori) you laugh and laugh and relax and enjoy the ride to "death" which really isn't death. Therefore drinking lots of alcohol and bringing on this death quicker isn't disallowed. Or 2nd wives or any other sin you want to name.

omarchowdhury 10y ago
That's quite a leap, to go from finite to infinite. Or, it's not even a leap but more of an engulfing. It is not so easy and I don't think death alone is sufficient for revealing the mystery. But perhaps we can be on a trajectory to that revelation, analogous to how the entire universe is on a trajectory to its eventual collapse. The method is at the heart of religion.
jodrellblank 10y ago
Watts also said 'praise and blame go together. If there was only praise, everyone would get bored of it, it wouldn't mean anything. So long as you're going to get a kick out of being praised then you have to go around blaming people too. But if you see the folly of that, that praising and blaming are just creating each other, then you don't praise and you don't blame, you just dig the whole thing'. But I feel there's something wrong with this. Just for fun the universe broke up into pieces, OK. Go further -> just for fun the pieces invented tribes and societies and languages and technologies and 'toys' of all kinds and companies and ... anything and everything above the unified fundamental forces. very Terence McKenna and the observation that the universe doesn't appear to be 'winding down', it appears to be 'winding up', 'generating novelty', up from the unified forces to the separate fundamental forces, up through matter instead of only energy, up through the fundamental particles, through the light elements and galactic clusters and stars, up through heavier elements, up through solar systems and planets, up through geology and plate tectonics, building on the lower levels, up through weather patterns and climatology and elemental chemistry, up through single cell organisms and electro-bio-chemistry, up through multiple cells and branches of life and sexual reproduction, up through sea creatures and reptiles and land mammals and socialisation, up through communication and languages, up through societies and settlements, up through all kinds of technologies .. and then why say it stops here? Why take the Buddhist style view that this is the arbitrary place to stop generating novelty, to say that nothing matters, to relax and enjoy the ride and get drunk? We should be increasing the number of distinctions and their interactions, that appears to be the direction of everything. The universe has spent 14 billion years increasing complexity on smaller and smaller scales, on smaller and smaller timescales, winding up and up and up. Instead of seeing that as good or bad, what about seeing that as inevitable? Instead of relaxing and saying that nothing means anything it's all just illusion, why not see the illusion as the whole point of the universe, more important than anything else? Each layer is harder to create, more costly, than the lower levels. It's harder to get human teamwork than single interest, harder to get human intelligence seeing things as separate and distinct and divided, than lower complexity mammals, harder to get mammals than amoeba, harder to get meltwater planet temperature than extreme heat or cold, etc. Each layer is more valuable because it's more rare. Therefore drinking lots of alcohol and bringing on this death quicker isn't disallowed. The liberated, free human who sees the world is an illusion and chooses hedonism, isn't that falling into the spiritual gutter, rather than attaining spiritual enlightenment? https://youtu.be/Jb8XDalyT0k?t=1030 https://youtu.be/Jb8XDalyT0k?t=1030 - he talks about the difference between people who go off the rails and turn to slovenly living and surviving on thievery when they want to live an unplanned life, vs people who don't. He talks about what he wants - "I like drinking wine, but wine isn't me. I like me and wine together" - well you can have more things to enjoy if you recognise more things as distinct and separate and create more things, surely?
- andrewfromx 10y ago
  spiritual gutter? Well, it's your choice. If you want to avoid the gutter and spend your 100 year dream doing very "pure" things and not indulging in hedonism go for it. That's a valid choice. But so is mine. You have to ask yourself if you are really not you, you are the universe, what did you want? Did you want a 100 year boring dream or a 100 year exciting dream? How exciting? And is the 100 years serious? Or is it all a big joke? Well, that your choice. What do humans do when all the work is done? Sing and dance. And the real question to ask: should this be allowed? Like how dare we enjoy ourselves!

omarchowdhury 10y ago

That's quite a leap, to go from finite to infinite. Or, it's not even a leap but more of an engulfing. It is not so easy and I don't think death alone is sufficient for revealing the mystery. But perhaps we can be on a trajectory to that revelation, analogous to how the entire universe is on a trajectory to its eventual collapse. The method is at the heart of religion.

jodrellblank 10y ago

Watts also said 'praise and blame go together. If there was only praise, everyone would get bored of it, it wouldn't mean anything. So long as you're going to get a kick out of being praised then you have to go around blaming people too. But if you see the folly of that, that praising and blaming are just creating each other, then you don't praise and you don't blame, you just dig the whole thing'. But I feel there's something wrong with this. Just for fun the universe broke up into pieces, OK. Go further -> just for fun the pieces invented tribes and societies and languages and technologies and 'toys' of all kinds and companies and ... anything and everything above the unified fundamental forces. very Terence McKenna and the observation that the universe doesn't appear to be 'winding down', it appears to be 'winding up', 'generating novelty', up from the unified forces to the separate fundamental forces, up through matter instead of only energy, up through the fundamental particles, through the light elements and galactic clusters and stars, up through heavier elements, up through solar systems and planets, up through geology and plate tectonics, building on the lower levels, up through weather patterns and climatology and elemental chemistry, up through single cell organisms and electro-bio-chemistry, up through multiple cells and branches of life and sexual reproduction, up through sea creatures and reptiles and land mammals and socialisation, up through communication and languages, up through societies and settlements, up through all kinds of technologies .. and then why say it stops here? Why take the Buddhist style view that this is the arbitrary place to stop generating novelty, to say that nothing matters, to relax and enjoy the ride and get drunk? We should be increasing the number of distinctions and their interactions, that appears to be the direction of everything. The universe has spent 14 billion years increasing complexity on smaller and smaller scales, on smaller and smaller timescales, winding up and up and up. Instead of seeing that as good or bad, what about seeing that as inevitable? Instead of relaxing and saying that nothing means anything it's all just illusion, why not see the illusion as the whole point of the universe, more important than anything else? Each layer is harder to create, more costly, than the lower levels. It's harder to get human teamwork than single interest, harder to get human intelligence seeing things as separate and distinct and divided, than lower complexity mammals, harder to get mammals than amoeba, harder to get meltwater planet temperature than extreme heat or cold, etc. Each layer is more valuable because it's more rare. Therefore drinking lots of alcohol and bringing on this death quicker isn't disallowed. The liberated, free human who sees the world is an illusion and chooses hedonism, isn't that falling into the spiritual gutter, rather than attaining spiritual enlightenment? https://youtu.be/Jb8XDalyT0k?t=1030 https://youtu.be/Jb8XDalyT0k?t=1030 - he talks about the difference between people who go off the rails and turn to slovenly living and surviving on thievery when they want to live an unplanned life, vs people who don't. He talks about what he wants - "I like drinking wine, but wine isn't me. I like me and wine together" - well you can have more things to enjoy if you recognise more things as distinct and separate and create more things, surely?

andrewfromx 10y ago
spiritual gutter? Well, it's your choice. If you want to avoid the gutter and spend your 100 year dream doing very "pure" things and not indulging in hedonism go for it. That's a valid choice. But so is mine. You have to ask yourself if you are really not you, you are the universe, what did you want? Did you want a 100 year boring dream or a 100 year exciting dream? How exciting? And is the 100 years serious? Or is it all a big joke? Well, that your choice. What do humans do when all the work is done? Sing and dance. And the real question to ask: should this be allowed? Like how dare we enjoy ourselves!