3 ms·
There's one aspect of all this I'd like to address. According to Dries, the reason for banning Larry is this: In the end, I fundamentally believe that all peop
by klibertp 10y ago
There's one aspect of all this I'd like to address. According to Dries, the reason for banning Larry is this:
In the end, I fundamentally believe that all people are created equally. This belief has shaped the values that the Drupal project has held since it's early days. I cannot in good faith support someone who actively promotes a philosophy that is contrary to this. The Gorean philosophy promoted by Larry is based on the principle that women are evolutionarily predisposed to serve men and that the natural order is for men to dominate and lead.
This sounds horrible, but I think it's just a misunderstanding. I believe that what Dries (and some commenters, like tptacek[1][2]) misses here is a very fundamental fact: BDSM is just a game, and "Gor" is just a series of science-fantasy novels.
In other words, even if Larry did say somewhere that "females are subhuman" it's not enough to conclude that this is what he believes in, even less that he would act on these beliefs. It may look pretty bad - whatever he said or wrote[5], we don't know[3] - when taken out of context, but without solid evidence to the contrary I assume the context here is BDSM. Saying things like these is expected and normal within the bounds of the scene and in conversations about it[6].
Again: default assumption when it comes to BDSM is that it's an act, a game played between consenting adults. Dries seems to be convinced that there is enough evidence[4] to say that this assumption does not apply here. As an outsider, I find it hard to believe him without seeing the evidence myself. In my experience, it's more often the case that the shocked observers don't know (or don't want to know) the convention and interpret what they see out of context.
To summarize: without further evidence and based on the knowledge of what BDSM is about I think it's safer to assume that someone did take offense (contrary to Dries claim[7]) to something he didn't fully understand, which resulted in current situation.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13961655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13961655
[2] Since the beliefs that we're talking about could be broadly and probably inaccurately but by how much I don't know described as "females are subhuman," it's the perspective of the Drupal members who did the ousting that those beliefs matter very much to the project.
[3] it is not for me to share any of the confidential information that I've received,
[4] However, I can tell you that those who have reviewed Larry's writing, including me, suffered from varying degrees of shock and concern.
[5] There is no mention anywhere about actually doing something wrong.
[6] tptacek writes that "[...] the claim here [...] is that proselytizing was in fact an issue." - but that would only be a problem had Larry tried to convince someone that "females are subhuman", and again, given that the only context given is "BDSM" I assume he didn't. He may have said something which could be interpreted as such, but that's not really the same thing as consciously "promoting" "the philosophy."
[7] I also don't take any offense to the role-playing activities or sexual preferences of Larry's alternative lifestyle.