5 ms·

As a young developer, it really is intimidating. Hard to know where to even start these days, it's overwhelming.

voltagex_ 10y ago
Does 28 still count as young? I've been doing some form of web programming for 8 or 9 years now and it's almost impossible to keep up with JS/Node/NPM/100 different poor re-implementations of 'make'. Luckily there are big enterprises that provide job security without chasing every new framework.
- cholantesh 10y ago
  I'm 28 myself, with experience primarily in web and ETL. I'm finding that even the big orgs are doing buzzword fishing on their jobs descriptions. MV* frameworks for largely static sites and data sets, served up to small, internal audiences, etc. Strongly weighing my options for moving into another space such as embedded systems or DSP, where the problems are a bit more tangible.
  - newbear 10y ago
    I feel like I got into programming years back ( I chose JS/web focus for future job prospect reasons) because I wanted to be introverted and solve problems. Instead it's become an extroverts heaven of circlejerk-buzzword-sixfigurehunting-pretension. I kid - there are amazing people doing amazing things but maybe embedded systems or dsp is more what I'm looking for?
- badosu 10y ago
  These days I made a project as a test for a job. It required a SPA framework, I am pretty much used to Backbone but wanted to use this opportunity to check how are the new shiny things these days. So I picked up Vue.js The architecture is pretty clean, minimalistic and well thought. Soon I realized how terrible documented most of the tools on js land are these days, it was very frustrating to see that most of the options are not well documented, so that you must find a suitable blog post or tutorial from someone that is used with all the quirks. This is not to say that the issue is with JS itself or it's ecosystem, it may be or not, but this little anecdote is what I can share from this experience. I hope this is just an exception.
gingerbread-man 10y ago
It doesn't really matter very much where you start. Pick something and dive in. Once you feel very comfortable with that, add another skill. Personally, I'd suggest learning a programming language first: Python, Javascript, and Ruby are all good choices. Find a book you really like in one of those languages and read it cover to cover. PS: https://eloquentjavascript.net https://eloquentjavascript.net is great, and free.
- afarrell 10y ago
  If you want to go with python, http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english3e/ http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english3e/ followed by http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000000754 http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000000754 are both free and teach good habits on the way to backend web development.
  - sdfin 10y ago
    I think this is the link for the site of the last edition of the 2nd book you mention http://www.obeythetestinggoat.com/ http://www.obeythetestinggoat.com/
    - gingerbread-man 10y ago
      What a wonderful name for a programming book.
      - afarrell 10y ago
        I actually bought a plushie goat and keep him on my desk.
dorian-graph 10y ago
You don't need to learn everything on there. Also, while some company may use/follow x (especially CSS methodologies), from what I've seen it's usually a poor attempt making it a lot easier to pick up.
marknadal 10y ago
I highly agree, and have strongly voiced "keeping things simple" with: 1. HTML4 (no special/new tags) Edit: CSS, of course (unfortunately, CSS is a pain to learn though, so get a lot of experience/experimenting) 2. Pure ES5 JavaScript (don't waste time with build-steps/compiling JS, that defeats the point/purpose - or if you want to, learn a language like ClojureScript or Elm/Haskell) 3. jQuery to manipulate the DOM (skip frameworks and stick to libraries, this will force you to actually understand JS rather than being a copy-paster. Once you have this down, build your own personalized framework to abstract things away, only then should you try experimenting with Angular/React, etc. others) 4. Notepad++ or Sublime (avoid using any terminal tools, including NodeJS, until you are comfortable with having a browser and an editor open side by side, and refreshing when making changes. Keep it simple: just files!) 5. NodeJS or PHP, GitHub for Desktop (learn basic command line use, but if something takes you more than 20 minutes to figure out, seek out a community/forum/help that is friendly and encouraging to newbs. Don't waste time on channels that make fun of you for not knowing command line.) 6. Heroku (for deploying, and having your page live to show your mom what you built) I wrote a beginner's tutorial for the first 3 items, it takes between 5 minutes to 30 minutes for people who have only played with a little bit of HTML. It teaches you how to build a ToDo app: http://gun.js.org/think.html http://gun.js.org/think.html , let me know if there is anything I can do to improve it.
- et-al 10y ago
  CSS needs to be included. CSS is the polish that changes a proof of concept into a presentable product. There's a number of Show HN projects that I'm hesitant to invest much time in because they look like the author won't bother maintaining them months down the line. Even your nicely made tutorial has CSS. ;) btw feedback: * For some reason it wasn't evident to me that the left black box was editable and I actually interacted with the right-side wondering why nothing was happening. Perhaps use something that doesn't have an interaction so I don't try to click the button at first glance. * Found myself scrolling up and an down a lot to read the next few instructions and updating the code. If things were side by side, this would be easier. * It'd be nice to step backwards for the instructions * The pre-formatted code in the instructions is a bit small. Might be hard to read for some people
cblock811 10y ago
Echoing others here, definitely just pick somewhere and get started. Spending time worrying about making the "right" decision is the worst thing you can do. I made that mistake when I was teaching myself and it cost me a few weeks until I finally just picked a language and went with it.
cm2187 10y ago
The most important skill is to brag about using a javascript framework that no one else has heard about in order to make everyone anxious that they are has-been already.

Does 28 still count as young? I've been doing some form of web programming for 8 or 9 years now and it's almost impossible to keep up with JS/Node/NPM/100 different poor re-implementations of 'make'. Luckily there are big enterprises that provide job security without chasing every new framework.

cholantesh 10y ago
I'm 28 myself, with experience primarily in web and ETL. I'm finding that even the big orgs are doing buzzword fishing on their jobs descriptions. MV* frameworks for largely static sites and data sets, served up to small, internal audiences, etc. Strongly weighing my options for moving into another space such as embedded systems or DSP, where the problems are a bit more tangible.
- newbear 10y ago
  I feel like I got into programming years back ( I chose JS/web focus for future job prospect reasons) because I wanted to be introverted and solve problems. Instead it's become an extroverts heaven of circlejerk-buzzword-sixfigurehunting-pretension. I kid - there are amazing people doing amazing things but maybe embedded systems or dsp is more what I'm looking for?
badosu 10y ago
These days I made a project as a test for a job. It required a SPA framework, I am pretty much used to Backbone but wanted to use this opportunity to check how are the new shiny things these days. So I picked up Vue.js The architecture is pretty clean, minimalistic and well thought. Soon I realized how terrible documented most of the tools on js land are these days, it was very frustrating to see that most of the options are not well documented, so that you must find a suitable blog post or tutorial from someone that is used with all the quirks. This is not to say that the issue is with JS itself or it's ecosystem, it may be or not, but this little anecdote is what I can share from this experience. I hope this is just an exception.

gingerbread-man 10y ago

It doesn't really matter very much where you start. Pick something and dive in. Once you feel very comfortable with that, add another skill. Personally, I'd suggest learning a programming language first: Python, Javascript, and Ruby are all good choices. Find a book you really like in one of those languages and read it cover to cover. PS: https://eloquentjavascript.net https://eloquentjavascript.net is great, and free.

afarrell 10y ago
If you want to go with python, http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english3e/ http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english3e/ followed by http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000000754 http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000000754 are both free and teach good habits on the way to backend web development.
- sdfin 10y ago
  I think this is the link for the site of the last edition of the 2nd book you mention http://www.obeythetestinggoat.com/ http://www.obeythetestinggoat.com/
  - gingerbread-man 10y ago
    What a wonderful name for a programming book.
    - afarrell 10y ago
      I actually bought a plushie goat and keep him on my desk.

dorian-graph 10y ago

You don't need to learn everything on there. Also, while some company may use/follow x (especially CSS methodologies), from what I've seen it's usually a poor attempt making it a lot easier to pick up.

marknadal 10y ago

I highly agree, and have strongly voiced "keeping things simple" with: 1. HTML4 (no special/new tags) Edit: CSS, of course (unfortunately, CSS is a pain to learn though, so get a lot of experience/experimenting) 2. Pure ES5 JavaScript (don't waste time with build-steps/compiling JS, that defeats the point/purpose - or if you want to, learn a language like ClojureScript or Elm/Haskell) 3. jQuery to manipulate the DOM (skip frameworks and stick to libraries, this will force you to actually understand JS rather than being a copy-paster. Once you have this down, build your own personalized framework to abstract things away, only then should you try experimenting with Angular/React, etc. others) 4. Notepad++ or Sublime (avoid using any terminal tools, including NodeJS, until you are comfortable with having a browser and an editor open side by side, and refreshing when making changes. Keep it simple: just files!) 5. NodeJS or PHP, GitHub for Desktop (learn basic command line use, but if something takes you more than 20 minutes to figure out, seek out a community/forum/help that is friendly and encouraging to newbs. Don't waste time on channels that make fun of you for not knowing command line.) 6. Heroku (for deploying, and having your page live to show your mom what you built) I wrote a beginner's tutorial for the first 3 items, it takes between 5 minutes to 30 minutes for people who have only played with a little bit of HTML. It teaches you how to build a ToDo app: http://gun.js.org/think.html http://gun.js.org/think.html , let me know if there is anything I can do to improve it.

et-al 10y ago
CSS needs to be included. CSS is the polish that changes a proof of concept into a presentable product. There's a number of Show HN projects that I'm hesitant to invest much time in because they look like the author won't bother maintaining them months down the line. Even your nicely made tutorial has CSS. ;) btw feedback: * For some reason it wasn't evident to me that the left black box was editable and I actually interacted with the right-side wondering why nothing was happening. Perhaps use something that doesn't have an interaction so I don't try to click the button at first glance. * Found myself scrolling up and an down a lot to read the next few instructions and updating the code. If things were side by side, this would be easier. * It'd be nice to step backwards for the instructions * The pre-formatted code in the instructions is a bit small. Might be hard to read for some people

cblock811 10y ago

Echoing others here, definitely just pick somewhere and get started. Spending time worrying about making the "right" decision is the worst thing you can do. I made that mistake when I was teaching myself and it cost me a few weeks until I finally just picked a language and went with it.

cm2187 10y ago

The most important skill is to brag about using a javascript framework that no one else has heard about in order to make everyone anxious that they are has-been already.