5 ms·

For any given job where biology is not a factor (which is all of them except weight lifting and highly athletic sports), cultural norms are. Women take care of

For any given job where biology is not a factor (which is all of them except weight lifting and highly athletic sports), cultural norms are. Women take care of children, typically, and their shit does not smell like roses. So you need a new hypothesis.

anothercomment 10y ago
So you think women don't go into plumbing because of cultural norms? Really? Ok, I wish somebody would study that and find the reasons. The baby argument doesn't hold, though, because it makes a huge difference if it is your own baby. Better comparison would perhaps be care of the elderly, which involves cleaning up shit but also has a social component.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  If the argument there is so few women coders why isn't it also why are there so many male garbage collectors (I could list a great many undesirable jobs here), prisoners, homeless and combat fatalities? Is the goal to balance those out as well?
  - XorNot 10y ago
    Yes.
shawn-furyan 10y ago
This is a 14 day old troll account. I would recommend against expending much effort to persuade a troll, or taking it seriously at all. That being said, you're correct, but the troll is offering ridiculous arguments because it is trying to spread FUD, not because it is genuinely trying to elucidate the issues.
- anothercomment 10y ago
  You are the one throwing accusations and ad hominems against somebody you don't know, but I am the troll? Nice... https://i.imgur.com/SjQclIQ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/SjQclIQ.jpg
  - sctb 10y ago
    Let's please not do this, either of you. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
rejschaap 10y ago
I would say weight lifting is not an exception at all. The cultural norm is that women should not be too muscular.
- anothercomment 10y ago
  It is not just cultural norms, the strongest female athletes are about as strong as average men: http://media.townhall.com/_townhall/uploads/2015/11/13/8.jpg http://media.townhall.com/_townhall/uploads/2015/11/13/8.jpg (linking to this chart without context because I don't have a lot of time to Google - but if you google, you will find lots of information on the differences in strength). Or specifically for weight lifting, consider this recent case of a transgender woman winning an international weight lifting title by a significant margin: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/03/22/transgender-woman-wins-international-weightlifting-title-amid-controversy-over-fairness/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/03/22... I doubt that the women/girls who choose to compete in weight lifting hold back because of cultural norms. That would be a silly sport - basically it would be a competition about who cares the least about cultural norms. In any case, there should be several women who don't care about cultural norms (what about the raging feminists who reject the norms, for example).
  - rejschaap 10y ago
    "women/girls who choose to compete in weight lifting" That is where the problem lies. When a 6 year old girl tells her parents she wants to become a weight lifter, her parents will say "how about ballet instead?". When a 12 year old girl tells her class mates she is a weight lifter all her friends will laugh at her. The cultural norms prevent girls to participate. If they are strong-willed and decide to pursue weight lifting despite all of this, they would have a good chance to become very good because of their determination.
    - anothercomment 10y ago
      But there are female weight lifters. You mean they probably only started later in life, and they would be as strong as men if they started at 6? Not sure if weight lifting is even recommended for kids, what is the average starting age? Also, I googled and a lot of the best female weight lifters look Chinese. I have a suspicion that they might be recruited by the Chinese system at early age and pushed for the glory of China, at the expense of their health. So cultural norms wouldn't be the issue here.

anothercomment 10y ago

So you think women don't go into plumbing because of cultural norms? Really? Ok, I wish somebody would study that and find the reasons. The baby argument doesn't hold, though, because it makes a huge difference if it is your own baby. Better comparison would perhaps be care of the elderly, which involves cleaning up shit but also has a social component.

cmdrfred 10y ago
If the argument there is so few women coders why isn't it also why are there so many male garbage collectors (I could list a great many undesirable jobs here), prisoners, homeless and combat fatalities? Is the goal to balance those out as well?
- XorNot 10y ago
  Yes.

shawn-furyan 10y ago

This is a 14 day old troll account. I would recommend against expending much effort to persuade a troll, or taking it seriously at all. That being said, you're correct, but the troll is offering ridiculous arguments because it is trying to spread FUD, not because it is genuinely trying to elucidate the issues.

anothercomment 10y ago
You are the one throwing accusations and ad hominems against somebody you don't know, but I am the troll? Nice... https://i.imgur.com/SjQclIQ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/SjQclIQ.jpg
- sctb 10y ago
  Let's please not do this, either of you. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

rejschaap 10y ago

I would say weight lifting is not an exception at all. The cultural norm is that women should not be too muscular.

anothercomment 10y ago
It is not just cultural norms, the strongest female athletes are about as strong as average men: http://media.townhall.com/_townhall/uploads/2015/11/13/8.jpg http://media.townhall.com/_townhall/uploads/2015/11/13/8.jpg (linking to this chart without context because I don't have a lot of time to Google - but if you google, you will find lots of information on the differences in strength). Or specifically for weight lifting, consider this recent case of a transgender woman winning an international weight lifting title by a significant margin: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/03/22/transgender-woman-wins-international-weightlifting-title-amid-controversy-over-fairness/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/03/22... I doubt that the women/girls who choose to compete in weight lifting hold back because of cultural norms. That would be a silly sport - basically it would be a competition about who cares the least about cultural norms. In any case, there should be several women who don't care about cultural norms (what about the raging feminists who reject the norms, for example).
- rejschaap 10y ago
  "women/girls who choose to compete in weight lifting" That is where the problem lies. When a 6 year old girl tells her parents she wants to become a weight lifter, her parents will say "how about ballet instead?". When a 12 year old girl tells her class mates she is a weight lifter all her friends will laugh at her. The cultural norms prevent girls to participate. If they are strong-willed and decide to pursue weight lifting despite all of this, they would have a good chance to become very good because of their determination.
  - anothercomment 10y ago
    But there are female weight lifters. You mean they probably only started later in life, and they would be as strong as men if they started at 6? Not sure if weight lifting is even recommended for kids, what is the average starting age? Also, I googled and a lot of the best female weight lifters look Chinese. I have a suspicion that they might be recruited by the Chinese system at early age and pushed for the glory of China, at the expense of their health. So cultural norms wouldn't be the issue here.