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> Women leave tech at a rate much higher than they leave other industries. The only conclusion is that tech is a hostile environment for women, or that women ar

by xienze 10y ago

> Women leave tech at a rate much higher than they leave other industries. The only conclusion is that tech is a hostile environment for women, or that women are intrinsically unable to perform in tech. "Men fail to enter [teaching|nursing|child care] at a rate much higher than other industries. The only conclusion is that [teaching|nursing|child care] is a hostile environment for men, or that men are intrinsically unable to perform in [teaching|nursing|child care]." Which is it, in the areas I listed?

lliamander 10y ago
Interestingly, I've heard women working in those fields lament the lack of male representation. In teaching and child care, some kids just respond better to men. In nursing, it's because men are generally going to have an easier time providing care for patients who are overweight.
- mpweiher 10y ago
  Interestingly, I've heard men working in tech lament the lack of female representation...
- neivin 10y ago
  I remember reading a study about female teachers grading female students more leniently, while male teachers did not show a bias. Source: http://cee.lse.ac.uk/ceedps/ceedp133.pdf http://cee.lse.ac.uk/ceedps/ceedp133.pdf
DanBC 10y ago
Each of those professions have considerable effort to increase the numbers of men working in them. This is a tedious point, and it gets made every single fucking time there's a thread like this. Use a search engine. You'd find, within a few moments, programmes across all of these industries to correct the gender imbalance.
- xienze 10y ago
  > Each of those professions have considerable effort to increase the numbers of men working in them. And yet the number never budges, and we don't hear the president and the media blasting said industries over their shameful employment ratios day after day. Instead it's just "hmm yes, that's curious. Well we're working on the problem. Carry on..." Whereas in tech if the ratio isn't 50/50 there's hell to pay. In comparison there isn't a damn thing being done to address the imbalance in the industries I've listed. Yet women in tech, that's a national crisis.
  - briandear 10y ago
    The American Counseling Association membership is 80% women. Only 10% of all social workers under the age of 34 are men. 70% of all psychology PhDs go to women. Minority representation is also very tiny. The vast, vast majority of mental health practitioners are white women. Yet those are professions where sex-diversity has a real impact on society. It's far more serious than the sex of the person writing the code for a fucking social network. There has been about 1 story in the NY Times about this issue in the past 10 years. And tech sex-disparity? A near constant stream of articles. By the way, 1% of carpenters are women and 98% of dental hygienists are women.[1] Is that catastrophic? Does it warrant NY Times articles or endless pontification? [1] https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/occ_gender_share_em_1020_txt.htm https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/occ_gender_share_em_1020_txt.ht...
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
dcole2929 10y ago
Seems like the most logical explanation is that [teaching|nursing|child care] are inherently hostile industries for men. Gender norms in America make it so that men aren't generally trusted around children, and face difficulties in navigating woman dominated fields like nursing. Are you arguing that tech hasn't developed into a somewhat hostile environment for woman because men face difficulties in some industries as well? Because if so that's a poor argument. It's completely possible for both to be true for the same reason while have different underlying causes
Arizhel 10y ago
You're changing the argument. The OP said that women leave tech at a much higher rate than other industries. You claim that men enter certain professions at a much lower rate. This is apples and oranges.
- xienze 10y ago
  Don't women also enter tech at a much lower rate than men? Because of said hostility issues.
  - Arizhel 10y ago
    You have a point there, it can be argued that there's a link. However I do think it's important to compare apples to apples, and not to apple trees. So we should be looking at why men and women leave the industry, and also why they enter.

by xienze 10y ago

lliamander 10y ago

Interestingly, I've heard women working in those fields lament the lack of male representation. In teaching and child care, some kids just respond better to men. In nursing, it's because men are generally going to have an easier time providing care for patients who are overweight.

mpweiher 10y ago
Interestingly, I've heard men working in tech lament the lack of female representation...
neivin 10y ago
I remember reading a study about female teachers grading female students more leniently, while male teachers did not show a bias. Source: http://cee.lse.ac.uk/ceedps/ceedp133.pdf http://cee.lse.ac.uk/ceedps/ceedp133.pdf

DanBC 10y ago

Each of those professions have considerable effort to increase the numbers of men working in them. This is a tedious point, and it gets made every single fucking time there's a thread like this. Use a search engine. You'd find, within a few moments, programmes across all of these industries to correct the gender imbalance.

xienze 10y ago
> Each of those professions have considerable effort to increase the numbers of men working in them. And yet the number never budges, and we don't hear the president and the media blasting said industries over their shameful employment ratios day after day. Instead it's just "hmm yes, that's curious. Well we're working on the problem. Carry on..." Whereas in tech if the ratio isn't 50/50 there's hell to pay. In comparison there isn't a damn thing being done to address the imbalance in the industries I've listed. Yet women in tech, that's a national crisis.
- briandear 10y ago
  The American Counseling Association membership is 80% women. Only 10% of all social workers under the age of 34 are men. 70% of all psychology PhDs go to women. Minority representation is also very tiny. The vast, vast majority of mental health practitioners are white women. Yet those are professions where sex-diversity has a real impact on society. It's far more serious than the sex of the person writing the code for a fucking social network. There has been about 1 story in the NY Times about this issue in the past 10 years. And tech sex-disparity? A near constant stream of articles. By the way, 1% of carpenters are women and 98% of dental hygienists are women.[1] Is that catastrophic? Does it warrant NY Times articles or endless pontification? [1] https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/occ_gender_share_em_1020_txt.htm https://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/occ_gender_share_em_1020_txt.ht...
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

dcole2929 10y ago

Seems like the most logical explanation is that [teaching|nursing|child care] are inherently hostile industries for men. Gender norms in America make it so that men aren't generally trusted around children, and face difficulties in navigating woman dominated fields like nursing. Are you arguing that tech hasn't developed into a somewhat hostile environment for woman because men face difficulties in some industries as well? Because if so that's a poor argument. It's completely possible for both to be true for the same reason while have different underlying causes

Arizhel 10y ago

You're changing the argument. The OP said that women leave tech at a much higher rate than other industries. You claim that men enter certain professions at a much lower rate. This is apples and oranges.

xienze 10y ago
Don't women also enter tech at a much lower rate than men? Because of said hostility issues.
- Arizhel 10y ago
  You have a point there, it can be argued that there's a link. However I do think it's important to compare apples to apples, and not to apple trees. So we should be looking at why men and women leave the industry, and also why they enter.