6 ms·
My comment was a comment, not an employee handbook. Boss: "Hey, my partner and I would love it if you'd like to join us for drinks at my place on Saturday nig
by amorphid 10y ago
My comment was a comment, not an employee handbook.
Boss: "Hey, my partner and I would love it if you'd like to join us for drinks at my place on Saturday night."
Employee (replies & CC's boss's boss): "I'm here to work, and this is making me extremely uncomfortable."
^^^ strive for that.
- xyzzy_plugh 10y agoAll work and no play makes Jill and Jack dull.
- amorphid 10y agoGet your work done and you can go home early.
- emodendroket 10y agoOffice dating is dicey but, I think, workable, but the issues with a superior asking a subordinate out on a date are so obvious that I don't see how you can think it's OK.
- Chris2048 10y agoCC's boss's boss? A bit passive-aggressive for a friendly gesture isn't it?
- emodendroket 10y agoDo you think a male boss inviting a female employee over for "drinks" on a Saturday night at his home is nothing more than a "friendly gesture"?
- prolly_a_moron 10y agoWay more often than not, yes. Is your default position to assume there's an agenda behind every invitation?
- emodendroket 10y agoNo, of course I do not assume there is an ulterior motive behind "every" invitation, but there is a strong sexual undercurrent to the invitation we're talking about.
- throwanem 10y agoYou don't need to see an agenda behind every invitation to recognize the agenda behind this one. For those genuinely unclear, it's a combination of things - the individual nature of the invitation, the private nature of the venue, the timing and explicit involvement of libations whose effects often include the lowering of inhibitions - all in all it's just a super sketchy thing to all of a sudden pop up in a previously professional relationship. Any one of those would be fine; any two would be a little questionable but probably okay; all three at once constitute a great big flashing neon sign that spells out "YOUR BOSS IS TRYING TO LAY YOU".
- webkike 10y agoI mean that's the thing, I don't deny that if this a purely professional relationship then this comment is incredibly out of place. But often times professional relationships become less professional and more friendly. I don't deny that it is creepy from your perspective.
- throwanem 10y agoI mean sure, but if that's the nature of the relationship, nobody's going to be made uncomfortable by the invitation - that's probably why the context in which it was mentioned makes clear that's not the case in this hypothetical. My comments are addressed more toward the "what could possibly be wrong with that?" kind of response it seems to have elicited, and intend to supply that question an answer.
- webkike 10y agoI see
- 10y ago
- webkike 10y agoIt could be. There's no context here. In this constructed example sure, it's not a friendly gesture. But it is a poor example. Here's the one I'd use: "Hey employee #333 want to sex" See? No context necessary
- emodendroket 10y agoWhich one of these e-mails do you think a boss looking to seduce his employee is more likely to send?
- webkike 10y agoI'm saying that it's unhelpful in this example to not be more clear.
- emodendroket 10y agoI don't think so. I think using a more realistic example makes the point clearer.
- misnome 10y agoI agree that there isn't enough context. The example doesn't even specify that it's being sent to a female employee (that's an assumption everyone is making) and I can imagine plenty of scenarios - with context - where it wouldn't necessarily be inappropriate.
- vidarh 10y agoThe context here includes the parent comment to the one setting out the scenario, and the reaction of sending a message copied to the boss's boss complaining about it. They make it clear that it was sent to a woman, and that the scenario at the very least was interpreted by the recipient as inappropriate. Yes, there are scenarios where it could be acceptable, but consider that they are (much) narrower than you might think: * Men can be sexually harassed too. * Sexual harassment is not the only problem with an e-mail like that. It may also create drinking pressure, or a feeling that you are forced to socialise with your boss. Of course that is context-dependent too, but for my part, as a man who doesn't enjoy drinking and doesn't want to spend my Saturdays with the boss, I'd fell put under inappropriate pressure by an e-mail like that as well, because I'd be concerned that a rejection could impact work. A lot of behaviour like that is fine when it is not between subordinates, and can be fine with subordinates too if it is someone you know very well. But even then you need to consider that e.g. it may negatively affect team dynamics or may be unintentionally discriminatory or become seen as discriminatory purely by e.g. including only those the manager knows well too.
- amorphid 10y agoPeople hear what they want to hear. As a boss, you can choose to say what you want and see what happens. It might be wiser to choose words carefully, so your subordinates don't get the wrong message.
- Chris2048 10y agoOP says: > Boss: "Hey, my partner and I would love it if.. So, you think the partner being there is just a premise?
- emodendroket 10y agoI don't know. The Uber post involved a manager talking about swinging.
- Chris2048 10y agoBig assumption then..
- emodendroket 10y agoI don't think the presence of the man's partner is enough to make the invitation not seem sexual in nature, is what I'm getting at.
- Chris2048 10y agoWhat makes it seem sexual in nature? Surely inviting a female employee, alone, is the unusual aspect that would make it appear suspect?
- emodendroket 10y agoI'm not going to explain it any better than the other guy. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13970336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13970336
- Chris2048 10y agoFirst things in that post: > the individual nature of the invitation, the private nature of the venue also: > You don't need to see an agenda behind every invitation to recognize the agenda behind this one. How does "that guy" know what agenda there is? If you can't explain any better then I can't accept your argument.
- throwanem 10y agoThat reads to me more like a pass. If a boss made a pass at me, you better believe I'd be looping in someone higher up on that, too, because that whole territory is extremely fraught no matter the response.
- devereaux 10y agoSeriously? What an ass move. I would have replied saying I will be coming with my partner and look forward having a good time.
- r00fus 10y agoIf this was not a pass, the manager should have explicitly invited the employee's S.O. and indicated a venue that has no beds in it (bar or restaurant). Too much vague-ry here, which, on a sensitive topic, is asking for trouble.