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I think this thinking is discouraging. Bot to men but even more to women and it might be the reason why there are so few women in STEM fields. I think generall

I think this thinking is discouraging. Bot to men but even more to women and it might be the reason why there are so few women in STEM fields. I think generally work places should be much more well rounded. We spend a considerable amount of time there, so why not allow it to be a place where we expand our lives instead of a place where we only "make money, save money, save time, and make customers happier"?

mememachine 10y ago
Many of us don't want it to be anything more than that. That's what the rest of our life is for.
- madsbuch 10y ago
  That's completely fair. But my proposition was not about your preferences. I conjectured that a shift to a more whole view of employers (rather than just machines) would be beneficial for most people.
  - brianmurphy 10y ago
    The purpose of my life outside of work right now is dating women so I think you are treading dangerous waters by asking people to bring a more "whole" view of themselves into the workplace when that is perceived to be the problem in the first place.
    - madsbuch 10y ago
      Again, a "more whole view" is not a complete view. I didn't suggest that we bring in all aspects of life. Why is it that people purposely misunderstand my words / does not see the scope? (I talked generally, not individually, and I did not talk about bringing all aspects in)
tptacek 10y ago
Careful. Plenty of STEM fields have much better gender parity than tech. Tech is singularly bad among the STEM fields; only physics is competitively bad. Mathematics, molecular biology, stat --- all have strong female participation. Worth noting: all these other STEM fields are also heavily dependent on software and computer technology, and women do fine in them.
- madsbuch 10y ago
  Sorry, you are completely right.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  Isn't 'tech' a broader term than those other subjects though?
- tnecniv 10y ago
  Are you sure math is doing much better than tech? The others I know are much more balanced but I thought that women were underrepresented in math as well.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    Yes. You can look up the stats yourself; they're not hard to find.
- mpweiher 10y ago
  Actually, that's not true. Generic "Engineering" is just as bad as CS. In fact, CS is slowly approaching the Engineering level (from the top). What's interesting is that the graph that's often bandied about left off engineering, to show CS as the sole outlier. Things that make you go "hmmm...."
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I just said CS isn't the sole outlier. But exclusion of women is an anomalous state for STEM, whether or not you include "generic engineering" in the mix.
Chris2048 10y ago
> might be the reason why there are so few women in STEM fields It might be, as is repeatedly suggested; but it probably isn't. If it was, we'd see more women study STEM in the first place.

mememachine 10y ago

Many of us don't want it to be anything more than that. That's what the rest of our life is for.

madsbuch 10y ago
That's completely fair. But my proposition was not about your preferences. I conjectured that a shift to a more whole view of employers (rather than just machines) would be beneficial for most people.
- brianmurphy 10y ago
  The purpose of my life outside of work right now is dating women so I think you are treading dangerous waters by asking people to bring a more "whole" view of themselves into the workplace when that is perceived to be the problem in the first place.
  - madsbuch 10y ago
    Again, a "more whole view" is not a complete view. I didn't suggest that we bring in all aspects of life. Why is it that people purposely misunderstand my words / does not see the scope? (I talked generally, not individually, and I did not talk about bringing all aspects in)

tptacek 10y ago

Careful. Plenty of STEM fields have much better gender parity than tech. Tech is singularly bad among the STEM fields; only physics is competitively bad. Mathematics, molecular biology, stat --- all have strong female participation. Worth noting: all these other STEM fields are also heavily dependent on software and computer technology, and women do fine in them.

madsbuch 10y ago
Sorry, you are completely right.
Chris2048 10y ago
Isn't 'tech' a broader term than those other subjects though?
tnecniv 10y ago
Are you sure math is doing much better than tech? The others I know are much more balanced but I thought that women were underrepresented in math as well.
- tptacek 10y ago
  Yes. You can look up the stats yourself; they're not hard to find.
mpweiher 10y ago
Actually, that's not true. Generic "Engineering" is just as bad as CS. In fact, CS is slowly approaching the Engineering level (from the top). What's interesting is that the graph that's often bandied about left off engineering, to show CS as the sole outlier. Things that make you go "hmmm...."
- tptacek 10y ago
  I just said CS isn't the sole outlier. But exclusion of women is an anomalous state for STEM, whether or not you include "generic engineering" in the mix.

Chris2048 10y ago

> might be the reason why there are so few women in STEM fields It might be, as is repeatedly suggested; but it probably isn't. If it was, we'd see more women study STEM in the first place.