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A Sloppy Land Surveyor Almost Caused a War Between Missouri and Iowa

48 points by samclemens 10y ago

m0nty 10y ago
Such carelessness was fairly normal for the time: the surveyors were often under pressure to complete quickly, even in the worst territory, with poor equipment and little actual training. On top of that, they were often bribed to move boundaries one way or the other, or interested themselves in engaging in land speculation, so were less than honest in their surveys. Anyone interested in this fascinating history should read Andro Linklater's Measuring America.
- macintux 10y ago
  AtlasObscura has another piece on early American surveying: http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ohio-public-land-survey http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ohio-public-land-survey PDF linked from that seems interesting if a bit dry: https://www.blm.gov/cadastral/Manual/pdffiles/histrect.pdf https://www.blm.gov/cadastral/Manual/pdffiles/histrect.pdf
arxpoetica 10y ago
Boggs is the same who issued the infamous Mormon extermination order.
- polartx 10y ago
  That occurred only months prior to these two militias nearly squaring off. Seems as though Boggs had a big ego, and bit of a bloodlust
georgecmu 10y ago
I have two favorite missurveyed landmarks: 1. The Four Corners monument marking the spot where borders of Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and Utah meet. Even after several lawsuits and court rulings, it's still off by half a kilometer or so. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument#Misplacement_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument#Misplace...) 2. Prime Meridian mark (that goes through the Royal Observatory in Greenwich) is off by 102.5 m. (https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/gec-nature-science-moderated/ANkXU1I5pzA https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/gec-nature-sc...)
- falsedan 10y ago
  > 2. Prime Meridian mark (that goes through the Royal Observatory in Greenwich) is off by 102.5 m No it ain't, it's right on the meridian by definition. Some other co-ordinate system's 0° meridian is adjacent & almost coincides, but for a 102.5m offset.
  - georgecmu 10y ago
    it's right on the meridian by definition What definition do you refer to? The real explanation for the discrepancy is that due to local gravity effects, the local vertical at the observatory does not intersect the Earth's rotation axis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_meridian_(Greenwich) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_meridian_(Greenwich) When the Airy transit circle was built, a mercury basin was used to align the telescope to the perpendicular. Thus the circle was aligned with the local vertical or plumb line, which is deflected slightly from the normal, or line perpendicular, to the reference ellipsoid used to define geodetic latitude and longitude in the International Terrestrial Reference Frame (which is nearly the same as the WGS-84 system used by GPS). While the local vertical defined at the Airy transit circle still points to the modern celestial meridian (the intersection of the prime meridian plane with the celestial sphere), it does not pass through the Earth's rotation axis. As a result of this, the ITRF zero meridian, defined by a plane passing through the Earth's rotation axis, is 102 metres to the east of the prime meridian. A 2015 analysis by Malys et al. shows the offset between the Airy transit circle and the ITRF/WGS 84 meridians can be explained by this deflection of the vertical alone; other possible sources of the offset that have been proposed in the past are smaller than the current uncertainty in the deflection of the vertical near the observatory.
    - falsedan 10y ago
      > What definition do you refer to? The one that goes through the marker. If there's any ambiguity due to another meridian having the same name, I trust you can distinguish them with your common good sense.
      - 10y ago
js2 10y ago
North Carolina and South Carolina just resolved their border as of this year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Carolinas#Boundary_between_the_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Carolinas#Boundary_between... The new border goes through the middle of at least one home: http://www.wral.com/home-divided-between-nc-sc-after-law-redraws-border/16397902/ http://www.wral.com/home-divided-between-nc-sc-after-law-red...
crymer11 10y ago
Tennessee and Georgia have been in a somewhat long-running dispute over a surveying error with their shared border. Georgia seems to be particularly interested in the water in the Tennessee River, which would flow through GA if the border were moved. This has led to some humorous moments, e.g. "[i]n 2008, former Chattanooga Mayor Ron Littlefield sent an aide, who reportedly wore a coonskin cap, and a city councilman to Atlanta with a truckload of bottled water during a previous chapter of the dispute."[0] 0 - One of the more recent articles about this hullabaloo: http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2017/feb/26/floridruling-could-have-implications-georgia-/414769/ http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2017/feb/26/f...
- LeifCarrotson 10y ago
  Looking at the map: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9499292,-85.5122947,11.71z https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9499292,-85.5122947,11.71z I was initially very impressed at Tennessee's resolve in protecting the water. Just a few miles later, the river flows into Alabama, where I initially thought that Tennessee would cease to care about what happens downstream. But then I looked further and realized it flows back North through central Tennessee. What's stopping Alabama from selling the water to Georgia?
acheron 10y ago
Poor geography knowledge did cause a war between Ohio and Michigan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War As the joke goes, Ohio won, but they still had to keep Toledo?
JoeAltmaier 10y ago
We in Iowa are happy with the result - we lost a row of counties and Missouri gained them. Net result: the IQ of both states was improved.

48 points by samclemens 10y ago

m0nty 10y ago

Such carelessness was fairly normal for the time: the surveyors were often under pressure to complete quickly, even in the worst territory, with poor equipment and little actual training. On top of that, they were often bribed to move boundaries one way or the other, or interested themselves in engaging in land speculation, so were less than honest in their surveys. Anyone interested in this fascinating history should read Andro Linklater's Measuring America.

macintux 10y ago
AtlasObscura has another piece on early American surveying: http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ohio-public-land-survey http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ohio-public-land-survey PDF linked from that seems interesting if a bit dry: https://www.blm.gov/cadastral/Manual/pdffiles/histrect.pdf https://www.blm.gov/cadastral/Manual/pdffiles/histrect.pdf

arxpoetica 10y ago

Boggs is the same who issued the infamous Mormon extermination order.

polartx 10y ago
That occurred only months prior to these two militias nearly squaring off. Seems as though Boggs had a big ego, and bit of a bloodlust

georgecmu 10y ago

I have two favorite missurveyed landmarks: 1. The Four Corners monument marking the spot where borders of Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and Utah meet. Even after several lawsuits and court rulings, it's still off by half a kilometer or so. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument#Misplacement_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument#Misplace...) 2. Prime Meridian mark (that goes through the Royal Observatory in Greenwich) is off by 102.5 m. (https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/gec-nature-science-moderated/ANkXU1I5pzA https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/gec-nature-sc...)

falsedan 10y ago
> 2. Prime Meridian mark (that goes through the Royal Observatory in Greenwich) is off by 102.5 m No it ain't, it's right on the meridian by definition. Some other co-ordinate system's 0° meridian is adjacent & almost coincides, but for a 102.5m offset.
- georgecmu 10y ago
  it's right on the meridian by definition What definition do you refer to? The real explanation for the discrepancy is that due to local gravity effects, the local vertical at the observatory does not intersect the Earth's rotation axis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_meridian_(Greenwich) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_meridian_(Greenwich) When the Airy transit circle was built, a mercury basin was used to align the telescope to the perpendicular. Thus the circle was aligned with the local vertical or plumb line, which is deflected slightly from the normal, or line perpendicular, to the reference ellipsoid used to define geodetic latitude and longitude in the International Terrestrial Reference Frame (which is nearly the same as the WGS-84 system used by GPS). While the local vertical defined at the Airy transit circle still points to the modern celestial meridian (the intersection of the prime meridian plane with the celestial sphere), it does not pass through the Earth's rotation axis. As a result of this, the ITRF zero meridian, defined by a plane passing through the Earth's rotation axis, is 102 metres to the east of the prime meridian. A 2015 analysis by Malys et al. shows the offset between the Airy transit circle and the ITRF/WGS 84 meridians can be explained by this deflection of the vertical alone; other possible sources of the offset that have been proposed in the past are smaller than the current uncertainty in the deflection of the vertical near the observatory.
  - falsedan 10y ago
    > What definition do you refer to? The one that goes through the marker. If there's any ambiguity due to another meridian having the same name, I trust you can distinguish them with your common good sense.
    - 10y ago

js2 10y ago

North Carolina and South Carolina just resolved their border as of this year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Carolinas#Boundary_between_the_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Carolinas#Boundary_between... The new border goes through the middle of at least one home: http://www.wral.com/home-divided-between-nc-sc-after-law-redraws-border/16397902/ http://www.wral.com/home-divided-between-nc-sc-after-law-red...

crymer11 10y ago

Tennessee and Georgia have been in a somewhat long-running dispute over a surveying error with their shared border. Georgia seems to be particularly interested in the water in the Tennessee River, which would flow through GA if the border were moved. This has led to some humorous moments, e.g. "[i]n 2008, former Chattanooga Mayor Ron Littlefield sent an aide, who reportedly wore a coonskin cap, and a city councilman to Atlanta with a truckload of bottled water during a previous chapter of the dispute."[0] 0 - One of the more recent articles about this hullabaloo: http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2017/feb/26/floridruling-could-have-implications-georgia-/414769/ http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2017/feb/26/f...

LeifCarrotson 10y ago
Looking at the map: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9499292,-85.5122947,11.71z https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9499292,-85.5122947,11.71z I was initially very impressed at Tennessee's resolve in protecting the water. Just a few miles later, the river flows into Alabama, where I initially thought that Tennessee would cease to care about what happens downstream. But then I looked further and realized it flows back North through central Tennessee. What's stopping Alabama from selling the water to Georgia?

acheron 10y ago

Poor geography knowledge did cause a war between Ohio and Michigan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War As the joke goes, Ohio won, but they still had to keep Toledo?

JoeAltmaier 10y ago

We in Iowa are happy with the result - we lost a row of counties and Missouri gained them. Net result: the IQ of both states was improved.