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> While in the JS world, even now that browsers are starting to support ES6, everyone just adds more and more steps to the build process, instead of trying to s

> While in the JS world, even now that browsers are starting to support ES6, everyone just adds more and more steps to the build process, instead of trying to simplify them. To build on your Java comparison -- this is would be akin to using a new feature that is still in the JSR approval process, and then downloading an edgey JVM platform (maybe OpenJDK nightly, or something like that) and then complaining when your app gets more complicated. The solution to that problem is to stick to the stable syntax until the new becomes fully supported. Admittedly, this is a problem with browsers where instead of 1 environment, there are 8 with some 1 offs, but again, there is IBM JDK, OpenJDK, Oracle JDK, Android Java (whatever that's called, Dalvik or something?) > The problem is that the JS world is simply more complex than the Java world. I strongly disagree. Have you seen "enterprise fizzbuzz"?* I don't mean disrespect but you are kidding yourself if you think Java isn't as complex (if not more) than the current JavaScript ecosystem. I spent 6 years programming in Java and never felt I scratched 10% of the surface. * https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpris...

kuschku 10y ago
> I strongly disagree. Have you seen "enterprise fizzbuzz"?* I don't mean disrespect but you are kidding yourself if you think Java isn't as complex (if not more) than the current JavaScript ecosystem. I spent 6 years programming in Java and never felt I scratched 10% of the surface. But that’s the point. That’s all just code. Just normal code. Not additional command line utilities. Even Enterprise FizzBuzz can be compiled simply with gradle or maven. No processors. No transpilers. > To build on your Java comparison -- this is would be akin to using a new feature that is still in the JSR approval process, and then downloading an edgey JVM platform (maybe OpenJDK nightly, or something like that) and then complaining when your app gets more complicated. But I can do that. And I just have to import one single plugin – https://github.com/evant/gradle-retrolambda https://github.com/evant/gradle-retrolambda, and never configure it! Nothing to configure, nothing else. One import, and I’m done. Look at that fizzbuzz enterprise build.gradle, it’s 29LOC! The problem of "good defaults" was never even considered in the JS world, it seems.
- treehau5 10y ago
  Again, this is not a good example of why the javascript ecosystem is worse / java is better. > But that’s the point. That’s all just code. Just normal code. Not additional command line utilities. First, Maven does not come standard with java. Second, in a previous reply, I mentioned that if you are not comfortable with the latest and greatest, then stick to the current standard. There is nothing wrong with that, and you can be productive. If transpilers and babel seems too scary to you, which given you mention maven and gradle I assume not, then don't use them, use polyfil, which is just like that retrolambda you linked. Most all of ES6's features are sugar anyways. Your intimate knowledge of tools and frameworks for the Java ecosystem will not equal another. What's a plugin? Ohhh you mean OSGI? No? Oh well I am lost. What is gradle? Oh it's a new build tool? Well sorry I only know ant, and my coworker uses sbt. He's hipster like that. > The problem of "good defaults" was never even considered in the JS world, it seems. touché for java.

kuschku 10y ago

> I strongly disagree. Have you seen "enterprise fizzbuzz"?* I don't mean disrespect but you are kidding yourself if you think Java isn't as complex (if not more) than the current JavaScript ecosystem. I spent 6 years programming in Java and never felt I scratched 10% of the surface. But that’s the point. That’s all just code. Just normal code. Not additional command line utilities. Even Enterprise FizzBuzz can be compiled simply with gradle or maven. No processors. No transpilers. > To build on your Java comparison -- this is would be akin to using a new feature that is still in the JSR approval process, and then downloading an edgey JVM platform (maybe OpenJDK nightly, or something like that) and then complaining when your app gets more complicated. But I can do that. And I just have to import one single plugin – https://github.com/evant/gradle-retrolambda https://github.com/evant/gradle-retrolambda, and never configure it! Nothing to configure, nothing else. One import, and I’m done. Look at that fizzbuzz enterprise build.gradle, it’s 29LOC! The problem of "good defaults" was never even considered in the JS world, it seems.

treehau5 10y ago
Again, this is not a good example of why the javascript ecosystem is worse / java is better. > But that’s the point. That’s all just code. Just normal code. Not additional command line utilities. First, Maven does not come standard with java. Second, in a previous reply, I mentioned that if you are not comfortable with the latest and greatest, then stick to the current standard. There is nothing wrong with that, and you can be productive. If transpilers and babel seems too scary to you, which given you mention maven and gradle I assume not, then don't use them, use polyfil, which is just like that retrolambda you linked. Most all of ES6's features are sugar anyways. Your intimate knowledge of tools and frameworks for the Java ecosystem will not equal another. What's a plugin? Ohhh you mean OSGI? No? Oh well I am lost. What is gradle? Oh it's a new build tool? Well sorry I only know ant, and my coworker uses sbt. He's hipster like that. > The problem of "good defaults" was never even considered in the JS world, it seems. touché for java.