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I think one point of Sapir-Worf is that aspects of different languages reinforce different concepts and ways of thinking. The language is often the bearer of th

by ihm 10y ago

I think one point of Sapir-Worf is that aspects of different languages reinforce different concepts and ways of thinking. The language is often the bearer of the culture's store of concepts. One famous example is the Guugu Yimithirr language[0], which uses absolute directions (North, South, East, West) instead of relative ones (left, right, in front of, behind). So one would say, "Can you pass me the salt to your North?" As a result, people in these cultures are constantly keeping track of which way North is: their language forces them to. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guugu_Yimithirr_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guugu_Yimithirr_language

awinter-py 10y ago
natives of grid-based cities can always find north as well. Interestingly the street grid isn't a language feature.
- macintux 10y ago
  > natives of grid-based cities can always find north as well I live in a grid-based city and I would dispute that. I'm pretty comfortable with cardinal directions but that hasn't been true of nearly anyone I've tried to provide directions to.
- thefalcon 10y ago
  My city is grid based, but downtown is rotated 45 degrees from the cardinal directions. This leaves me constantly confused and confounded while downtown, not least because the transition streets from downtown to the rest of the city are all at crazy angles (that is, unlike anything where I grew up). As you say, this isn't a language feature. For me the concepts of N,E,W,S and the easy visualization matters more than my language. I picture a map, but not the words on the map.
  - awinter-py 10y ago
    fascinating. what city? It sounds like you're not a native -- in your observation, is the ability to navigate easily in the 'rotated downtown' area correlated with having grown up nearby? That would make a cool study.
    - eric_the_read 10y ago
      Denver does this; not sure if that's the OP's city, but you can see the relevant bit here: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7565211,-104.99244,14z https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7565211,-104.99244,14z
    - jhbadger 10y ago
      Montreal works this way -- the street grid is aligned to the St. Lawrence rather than to compass directions
    - thefalcon 10y ago
      I'm in the Central Valley (CA), and I notice that this is a pattern that seems to be repeated up and down the 99 (Downtown parallels the freeway while the rest of the city exists on a normal grid).
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
> one point of Sapir-Worf is that aspects of different languages reinforce different concepts and ways of thinking There is a link between whether a culture's language requires temporal markers and various economic markers. "For example, a German speaker predicting rain can naturally do so in the present tense, saying: Morgen regnet es which translates to ‘It rains tomorrow’. In contrast, English would require the use of a future marker like ‘will’ or ‘is going to’, as in: ‘It will rain tomorrow’" [1]. It is found that "speakers of [timeless] languages: save more, retire with more wealth, smoke less, practice safer sex, and are less obese." [1] http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty/keith.chen/papers/LanguageWorkingPaper.pdf http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty/keith.chen/papers/Langu...

by ihm 10y ago

awinter-py 10y ago

natives of grid-based cities can always find north as well. Interestingly the street grid isn't a language feature.

macintux 10y ago
> natives of grid-based cities can always find north as well I live in a grid-based city and I would dispute that. I'm pretty comfortable with cardinal directions but that hasn't been true of nearly anyone I've tried to provide directions to.
thefalcon 10y ago
My city is grid based, but downtown is rotated 45 degrees from the cardinal directions. This leaves me constantly confused and confounded while downtown, not least because the transition streets from downtown to the rest of the city are all at crazy angles (that is, unlike anything where I grew up). As you say, this isn't a language feature. For me the concepts of N,E,W,S and the easy visualization matters more than my language. I picture a map, but not the words on the map.
- awinter-py 10y ago
  fascinating. what city? It sounds like you're not a native -- in your observation, is the ability to navigate easily in the 'rotated downtown' area correlated with having grown up nearby? That would make a cool study.
  - eric_the_read 10y ago
    Denver does this; not sure if that's the OP's city, but you can see the relevant bit here: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7565211,-104.99244,14z https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7565211,-104.99244,14z
  - jhbadger 10y ago
    Montreal works this way -- the street grid is aligned to the St. Lawrence rather than to compass directions
  - thefalcon 10y ago
    I'm in the Central Valley (CA), and I notice that this is a pattern that seems to be repeated up and down the 99 (Downtown parallels the freeway while the rest of the city exists on a normal grid).

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

> one point of Sapir-Worf is that aspects of different languages reinforce different concepts and ways of thinking There is a link between whether a culture's language requires temporal markers and various economic markers. "For example, a German speaker predicting rain can naturally do so in the present tense, saying: Morgen regnet es which translates to ‘It rains tomorrow’. In contrast, English would require the use of a future marker like ‘will’ or ‘is going to’, as in: ‘It will rain tomorrow’" [1]. It is found that "speakers of [timeless] languages: save more, retire with more wealth, smoke less, practice safer sex, and are less obese." [1] http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty/keith.chen/papers/LanguageWorkingPaper.pdf http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty/keith.chen/papers/Langu...