5 ms·

"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert Pirsig. While it's also a tale of travel and self-exploration (the rediscovery of identity after a nervou

"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert Pirsig. While it's also a tale of travel and self-exploration (the rediscovery of identity after a nervous breakdown and shock therapy), mostly the book is about thinking. I was a different person after identifying with the narrator who also lived in the mind, and asked questions about basic concepts like 'quality', or qualia of events, objects, roles, and the subjective/objective values they embody or we impart on them. A watershed book for me.

kemiller2002 10y ago
Good call! I was literally thinking about rereading that book this morning on the way to work.
0x445442 10y ago
Yeah, I read the book years ago but wasn't mature enough to appreciate the its value. But as I've gained in years and as my children have grown older I've thought a lot about quality and its significance. I'll be revisiting the book in the near future.
- xherberta 10y ago
  I wonder if The Timeless Way of Building by Christopher Alexander would be similarly interesting. It's not trying to be a novel, but explores similar concepts.
  - 0x445442 10y ago
    I've never read that... I'll have to check it out.
    - vram22 10y ago
      Design Patterns (in software) are supposed to be derived or inspired (not the actual patterns, but the idea of patterns) by that book, BTW, or by Alexanders other thoughts or writings.
tylerc230 10y ago
This book blew my mind when I first read it in highschool. I've had a few pivotal experiences in my life which have shaped who I am and how I think. Reading this book was one of them.
genkimind 10y ago
I thought the first third of the book was absolutely fantastic. But then it quickly decayed into philosophical drivel, IMO. Perhaps I'm not wise enough to understand the end of the book but I truly thought it was garbage and believe this is one of the most overrated books of all time. Anybody else feel this way?
- virtualwhys 10y ago
  Read it 20 years ago, and again this winter. Like you the first part of the book had me thinking, this is genius, but then the rest of the way it seemed to devolve into meaningless drivel. Maybe in 20 years I'll give it another shot and finally see why the book is considered a classic.
- willbw 10y ago
  I agree with you, I started the book and I thought, "Why do people hate this? This is a joy." But, then it decayed into drivel, as you said. A shame. I think they could cut 100 pages and it would be a bit better.
XaspR8d 10y ago
Interesting suggestion! I really cannot stand this book, but I appreciate all of the things you've gleaned from it and I'm glad it's had a positive impact on people. I actually really like Pirsig's ideas about quality and balancing analytical and emotional worldviews, but the writing style drives me nuts and feels like I'm grading a weak Philosophy 101 essay.
- dmac0415 10y ago
  I completely agree. There was a fair amount of arrogance in his arguments and I found him constructing straw arguments fairly often. The part where I lost complete interest in the book was when he was discussing whether the 0s and 1s in computers exist -- there was no attempt to see binary as a symbol of a certain state.
Nomentatus 10y ago
Do grab the CBC Ideas interview with Pirsig, as a podcast. Actually, this excerpts that original Ideas interview: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/the-motorcycle-is-yourself-1.2914205 http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/the-motorcycle-is-yourself-1.2... Terrible philosophical reasoning, yet plenty of relevance, and an interesting person, no question.

kemiller2002 10y ago

Good call! I was literally thinking about rereading that book this morning on the way to work.

0x445442 10y ago

Yeah, I read the book years ago but wasn't mature enough to appreciate the its value. But as I've gained in years and as my children have grown older I've thought a lot about quality and its significance. I'll be revisiting the book in the near future.

xherberta 10y ago
I wonder if The Timeless Way of Building by Christopher Alexander would be similarly interesting. It's not trying to be a novel, but explores similar concepts.
- 0x445442 10y ago
  I've never read that... I'll have to check it out.
  - vram22 10y ago
    Design Patterns (in software) are supposed to be derived or inspired (not the actual patterns, but the idea of patterns) by that book, BTW, or by Alexanders other thoughts or writings.

tylerc230 10y ago

This book blew my mind when I first read it in highschool. I've had a few pivotal experiences in my life which have shaped who I am and how I think. Reading this book was one of them.

genkimind 10y ago

I thought the first third of the book was absolutely fantastic. But then it quickly decayed into philosophical drivel, IMO. Perhaps I'm not wise enough to understand the end of the book but I truly thought it was garbage and believe this is one of the most overrated books of all time. Anybody else feel this way?

virtualwhys 10y ago
Read it 20 years ago, and again this winter. Like you the first part of the book had me thinking, this is genius, but then the rest of the way it seemed to devolve into meaningless drivel. Maybe in 20 years I'll give it another shot and finally see why the book is considered a classic.
willbw 10y ago
I agree with you, I started the book and I thought, "Why do people hate this? This is a joy." But, then it decayed into drivel, as you said. A shame. I think they could cut 100 pages and it would be a bit better.

XaspR8d 10y ago

Interesting suggestion! I really cannot stand this book, but I appreciate all of the things you've gleaned from it and I'm glad it's had a positive impact on people. I actually really like Pirsig's ideas about quality and balancing analytical and emotional worldviews, but the writing style drives me nuts and feels like I'm grading a weak Philosophy 101 essay.

dmac0415 10y ago
I completely agree. There was a fair amount of arrogance in his arguments and I found him constructing straw arguments fairly often. The part where I lost complete interest in the book was when he was discussing whether the 0s and 1s in computers exist -- there was no attempt to see binary as a symbol of a certain state.

Nomentatus 10y ago

Do grab the CBC Ideas interview with Pirsig, as a podcast. Actually, this excerpts that original Ideas interview: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/the-motorcycle-is-yourself-1.2914205 http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/the-motorcycle-is-yourself-1.2... Terrible philosophical reasoning, yet plenty of relevance, and an interesting person, no question.