5 ms·

> the only way it'll ever get fixed is if we somehow get to the point where writing networking code in a non-memory-safe language is considered professional mal

by baldfat 10y ago

> the only way it'll ever get fixed is if we somehow get to the point where writing networking code in a non-memory-safe language is considered professional malpractice. So using Linux, Windows, BSD or MacOS servers are malpractice? I think you might have over stated your case. So are you waiting for a memory safe Herd re-write? A memory safe any OS will be decades away if someone wanted to start tackling it now.

freddref 10y ago
writing, not using.
pjmlp 10y ago
Microsoft does research how to improve security at OS level and sometimes those efforts do end up on Windows. Latest examples, Windows 10 secure kernel and Device Driver protection. https://myignite.microsoft.com/sessions/36925 https://myignite.microsoft.com/sessions/36925 Or the new Windows USB stack, written in the P language. https://github.com/p-org/P https://github.com/p-org/P UNIXes, not so much beyond patching C exploits.
- madphrodite 10y ago
  And the last windows 7 update black screened my pc and left me in limbo till I was able to restore. What exactly is your point? Windows is not a standard to be held higher than..well anything.
  - dsacco 10y ago
    The parent commenter used Windows 10 as an example and you used Windows...7. His point, which is that Microsoft actively researches and implements OS-level security improvements, hasn't been rebutted by your statement about Windows 7. Windows 7 was released in 2009. There are substantial proactive improvements that Microsoft cannot feasibly backport to older OS versions even if they're still within the support period, and the corporate culture was simply different when Windows 7 was released.
    - madphrodite 10y ago
      Did you know that I can still run, patch and support linux distributions written in 2009 if I want to? Did you know that?
    - petee 10y ago
      Counter-point: Windows 10 updates locked up 2 of my machines - Microsoft has a tough time implementing most things properly...
    - madphrodite 10y ago
      Substantial proactive improvements not relevant to the same build|OS which comes full circle to the linux comment which is so hated. That is: anyone with source and knowledge can make it work and those without...blackscreen.
  - baldfat 10y ago
    I think the vast majority of people would say Windows has been getting much better in security since the days of XP. People can choose Linux, BSD, MacOS or Windows and have a good choice that is reasonably secure.
- sqeaky 10y ago
  There are lawsuits open about windows 10 destroying user data. Windows of all flavors has given me nothing but pain. Microsoft is not the benchmark of quality software. Most of their real innovations are in the business model space.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    At least people know who to sue when Windows destroys data, not sure who to sue when distribution X does it.
    - sqeaky 10y ago
      In what system can you sue when something some came at no cost, no warranty (express or implied) and in a good faith effort to help everyone at the personal expense of the developer? If that system exists, it sounds disgusting and unethical. Paying for something changes the nature of the transaction.
    - baldfat 10y ago
      When can people sue Apple for HFS+ issues. Those must be multiple of times higher then anything caused by Windows 10?
fiedzia 10y ago
> So using Linux, Windows, BSD or MacOS servers are malpractice? If you sell it as "secure", yes absolutely. And there are many applications where you would not be even considered as a contractor for doing so. There is increasing number of situations where you want to provide hard guarantees (written in contract) about quality of the software and service you are providing. "we are using Linux" sometimes is not good enough.
kps 10y ago
Of course they're overstated their case. Needs differ. When I wrote networking code a couple jobs ago it was in assembler, because a new frame will be along in 67ns whether you're ready or not.

by baldfat 10y ago

freddref 10y ago

writing, not using.

pjmlp 10y ago

Microsoft does research how to improve security at OS level and sometimes those efforts do end up on Windows. Latest examples, Windows 10 secure kernel and Device Driver protection. https://myignite.microsoft.com/sessions/36925 https://myignite.microsoft.com/sessions/36925 Or the new Windows USB stack, written in the P language. https://github.com/p-org/P https://github.com/p-org/P UNIXes, not so much beyond patching C exploits.

madphrodite 10y ago
And the last windows 7 update black screened my pc and left me in limbo till I was able to restore. What exactly is your point? Windows is not a standard to be held higher than..well anything.
- dsacco 10y ago
  The parent commenter used Windows 10 as an example and you used Windows...7. His point, which is that Microsoft actively researches and implements OS-level security improvements, hasn't been rebutted by your statement about Windows 7. Windows 7 was released in 2009. There are substantial proactive improvements that Microsoft cannot feasibly backport to older OS versions even if they're still within the support period, and the corporate culture was simply different when Windows 7 was released.
  - madphrodite 10y ago
    Did you know that I can still run, patch and support linux distributions written in 2009 if I want to? Did you know that?
  - petee 10y ago
    Counter-point: Windows 10 updates locked up 2 of my machines - Microsoft has a tough time implementing most things properly...
  - madphrodite 10y ago
    Substantial proactive improvements not relevant to the same build|OS which comes full circle to the linux comment which is so hated. That is: anyone with source and knowledge can make it work and those without...blackscreen.
- baldfat 10y ago
  I think the vast majority of people would say Windows has been getting much better in security since the days of XP. People can choose Linux, BSD, MacOS or Windows and have a good choice that is reasonably secure.
sqeaky 10y ago
There are lawsuits open about windows 10 destroying user data. Windows of all flavors has given me nothing but pain. Microsoft is not the benchmark of quality software. Most of their real innovations are in the business model space.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  At least people know who to sue when Windows destroys data, not sure who to sue when distribution X does it.
  - sqeaky 10y ago
    In what system can you sue when something some came at no cost, no warranty (express or implied) and in a good faith effort to help everyone at the personal expense of the developer? If that system exists, it sounds disgusting and unethical. Paying for something changes the nature of the transaction.
  - baldfat 10y ago
    When can people sue Apple for HFS+ issues. Those must be multiple of times higher then anything caused by Windows 10?

fiedzia 10y ago

> So using Linux, Windows, BSD or MacOS servers are malpractice? If you sell it as "secure", yes absolutely. And there are many applications where you would not be even considered as a contractor for doing so. There is increasing number of situations where you want to provide hard guarantees (written in contract) about quality of the software and service you are providing. "we are using Linux" sometimes is not good enough.

kps 10y ago

Of course they're overstated their case. Needs differ. When I wrote networking code a couple jobs ago it was in assembler, because a new frame will be along in 67ns whether you're ready or not.