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How the "hidden high security feature"* in the new £1 coin works is covered here: https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/53673/how-does-the-authenticatio

How the "hidden high security feature"* in the new £1 coin works is covered here: https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/53673/how-does-the-authentication-in-the-new-uk-£1-coin-work https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/53673/how-does-... * Royal Mint’s new anti-counterfeiting technology, which can be authenticated by high-speed automated detection, was called Integrated Secure Identification Systems (ISIS) - but for obvious reasons, they've stopped using that name.

eumoria 10y ago
K, damn.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- katerberg 10y ago
  Per the article, one in thirty of these coins are counterfeit.
  - kawsper 10y ago
    Just adding another source: > The Royal Mint regularly conducts surveys to estimate the level of counterfeit £1 coins in the UK. A survey undertaken in May 2015 found that the rate of counterfeit UK £1 coins in circulation at the time was 2.55%, compared to 3.03% in May 2014. http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/counterfeit-one-pound-coins http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/counterfeit-one-p...
    - Sir_Cmpwn 10y ago
      This link first loaded the page, then unloaded it and put me in a queue! I was told how many people were ahead of me and an estimate on when I would get to read the page, complete with elevator music. Why would anyone even make that?
      - petepete 10y ago
        I've never ever seen anything like this. It would appear that this functionality has been there for a while and was also triggered on the Queen's birthday[0] [0] http://metro.co.uk/2016/04/13/how-very-english-visitors-to-the-royal-mints-website-are-being-placed-in-a-queue-5815404/ http://metro.co.uk/2016/04/13/how-very-english-visitors-to-t...
        Reason077 10y ago
        Similar queuing mechanisms are used on things like Ticketmaster which experience extreme demand peaks when high-demand tickets go on sale. Presumably the Royal Mint experience similar demand peaks occasionally when limited-release collectable coins go on sale?
        AdamJacobMuller 10y ago
        Yeah, but, this displayed the article that I wanted to read, then redirected me to a queue system, now i'll eventually go back to the actual page. Its causing more work for the system. The ticketmaster queues block a heavyweight process (ticket search), not simple page displays. This is the equivalent of ticketmaster not letting you see pages with lists of upcoming performances without waiting in a queue.
        mino 10y ago
        Exactly! The redirection to the queue happens after the page loads. Why would you ever want to build this feature? :)
        pmiller2 10y ago
        I can't say for certain about the Royal Mint, but the US mint certainly does experience such a load pattern. It responds by either crashing or failing to load, unfortunately. A lightweight order-taking site that pushes orders to a queue for fulfillment would be a massive improvement over the strategy they actually choose (per-household quantity limits).
      - 10y ago
  - monk_e_boy 10y ago
    Occasionally you do get a pound coin that is slightly heavy. I guess those are the counterfeit ones. Bit hard for the layman to tell.
    - Symbiote 10y ago
      It's not too difficult for most of them. Drop it edgeways on the table. Most counterfeit ones don't give the proper 'clunk', maybe the material isn't right. Or, the colour or alignment would be bad, or they'd appear more worn than normal. I don't think the 1/30 fakes are evenly spread around the country. When I lived in London, they were much more common than that.
    - pmiller2 10y ago
      Depends how heavy. Modern circulation coins, not having any precious metal content anymore, tend to have fairly loose manufacturing tolerances.
    - rconti 10y ago
      I remember getting a counterfeit bi-metallic 10 Franc coin. I was excited I had a "defective" one where the center was falling out, until it was pointed out to me this meant it was fake.
cat199 10y ago
tl;dr: special uv-altering particles in coating allows using a light to detect counterfeit; basic and high end scanners avail. for detection. reading between lines: sounds like the 'basic scanning' can be used e.g. for consumer/POS equipment to keep out the unsophisticated counterfeitters (e.g. coating is/is not present, perhaps some 'watermark' in the coating), and the 'sophisticated scanning' could potentially identify serial numbers/coin hash values in the light patterns or other means so that individual coins could be tracked, allowing discovery of more sophisticated attackers once these coins pass through banks or similar.
- huhtenberg 10y ago
  Erm. If your assumption is correct, it's the _legit_ coins that could be tracked, not the counterfeit ones. Which, incidentally, makes this feature much more interesting.
  - foota 10y ago
    Could be that it isn't a signature that is intentionally generated. It could just be based on how the light scatters, which is likely to be unique per coin. Like a fingerprint.
jasiek 10y ago
So this means every coin in circulation would be uniquely identifiable through a unique random pattern of embedded luminescent particles.
panarky 10y ago
"Approximately one in thirty £1 coins in circulation is a counterfeit" "16 October 2017 onwards - demonetisation - you are under no obligation to accept the round £1 coin from your customers"
- banku_brougham 10y ago
  This is the big deal for users of the current pound coins. Somebody is going to get stuck with a lot of irredeemable £1 counterfeit coins. Musical chairs, in coins.
  - Vextasy 10y ago
    It is my understanding that the banks will still accept them but as a retailer you no longer have to.
    - banku_brougham 10y ago
      i think the banks will not have to accept counterfeit coins. So 1/30th of the coins in circulation will be urgently shunned by everyone with the capacity to notice them.

eumoria 10y ago

K, damn.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
katerberg 10y ago
Per the article, one in thirty of these coins are counterfeit.
- kawsper 10y ago
  Just adding another source: > The Royal Mint regularly conducts surveys to estimate the level of counterfeit £1 coins in the UK. A survey undertaken in May 2015 found that the rate of counterfeit UK £1 coins in circulation at the time was 2.55%, compared to 3.03% in May 2014. http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/counterfeit-one-pound-coins http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/counterfeit-one-p...
  - Sir_Cmpwn 10y ago
    This link first loaded the page, then unloaded it and put me in a queue! I was told how many people were ahead of me and an estimate on when I would get to read the page, complete with elevator music. Why would anyone even make that?
    - petepete 10y ago
      I've never ever seen anything like this. It would appear that this functionality has been there for a while and was also triggered on the Queen's birthday[0] [0] http://metro.co.uk/2016/04/13/how-very-english-visitors-to-the-royal-mints-website-are-being-placed-in-a-queue-5815404/ http://metro.co.uk/2016/04/13/how-very-english-visitors-to-t...
      - Reason077 10y ago
        Similar queuing mechanisms are used on things like Ticketmaster which experience extreme demand peaks when high-demand tickets go on sale. Presumably the Royal Mint experience similar demand peaks occasionally when limited-release collectable coins go on sale?
        AdamJacobMuller 10y ago
        Yeah, but, this displayed the article that I wanted to read, then redirected me to a queue system, now i'll eventually go back to the actual page. Its causing more work for the system. The ticketmaster queues block a heavyweight process (ticket search), not simple page displays. This is the equivalent of ticketmaster not letting you see pages with lists of upcoming performances without waiting in a queue.
        mino 10y ago
        Exactly! The redirection to the queue happens after the page loads. Why would you ever want to build this feature? :)
        pmiller2 10y ago
        I can't say for certain about the Royal Mint, but the US mint certainly does experience such a load pattern. It responds by either crashing or failing to load, unfortunately. A lightweight order-taking site that pushes orders to a queue for fulfillment would be a massive improvement over the strategy they actually choose (per-household quantity limits).
    - 10y ago
- monk_e_boy 10y ago
  Occasionally you do get a pound coin that is slightly heavy. I guess those are the counterfeit ones. Bit hard for the layman to tell.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    It's not too difficult for most of them. Drop it edgeways on the table. Most counterfeit ones don't give the proper 'clunk', maybe the material isn't right. Or, the colour or alignment would be bad, or they'd appear more worn than normal. I don't think the 1/30 fakes are evenly spread around the country. When I lived in London, they were much more common than that.
  - pmiller2 10y ago
    Depends how heavy. Modern circulation coins, not having any precious metal content anymore, tend to have fairly loose manufacturing tolerances.
  - rconti 10y ago
    I remember getting a counterfeit bi-metallic 10 Franc coin. I was excited I had a "defective" one where the center was falling out, until it was pointed out to me this meant it was fake.

cat199 10y ago

tl;dr: special uv-altering particles in coating allows using a light to detect counterfeit; basic and high end scanners avail. for detection. reading between lines: sounds like the 'basic scanning' can be used e.g. for consumer/POS equipment to keep out the unsophisticated counterfeitters (e.g. coating is/is not present, perhaps some 'watermark' in the coating), and the 'sophisticated scanning' could potentially identify serial numbers/coin hash values in the light patterns or other means so that individual coins could be tracked, allowing discovery of more sophisticated attackers once these coins pass through banks or similar.

huhtenberg 10y ago
Erm. If your assumption is correct, it's the _legit_ coins that could be tracked, not the counterfeit ones. Which, incidentally, makes this feature much more interesting.
- foota 10y ago
  Could be that it isn't a signature that is intentionally generated. It could just be based on how the light scatters, which is likely to be unique per coin. Like a fingerprint.

jasiek 10y ago

So this means every coin in circulation would be uniquely identifiable through a unique random pattern of embedded luminescent particles.

panarky 10y ago

"Approximately one in thirty £1 coins in circulation is a counterfeit" "16 October 2017 onwards - demonetisation - you are under no obligation to accept the round £1 coin from your customers"

banku_brougham 10y ago
This is the big deal for users of the current pound coins. Somebody is going to get stuck with a lot of irredeemable £1 counterfeit coins. Musical chairs, in coins.
- Vextasy 10y ago
  It is my understanding that the banks will still accept them but as a retailer you no longer have to.
  - banku_brougham 10y ago
    i think the banks will not have to accept counterfeit coins. So 1/30th of the coins in circulation will be urgently shunned by everyone with the capacity to notice them.