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Really liked playing the beta (or was it alpha?) of this when it came out, but the pricing didn't really make sense for me. Paying per compute time works for b

Really liked playing the beta (or was it alpha?) of this when it came out, but the pricing didn't really make sense for me. Paying per compute time works for businesses looking for flexible cloud solutions, but as an individual this makes playing the game much less fun (because you're constantly paying attention to the cost).

rhaps0dy 10y ago
It also implies some sort of pay to win - with more compute you can presumably do search algorithms that act smarter.
- onion2k 10y ago
  If your code isn't good enough to compete against other players you'll actually be paying to lose...
- lawless123 10y ago
  it would also make the game cheaper if you figure out less computationally intensive algos to win.
  - harigov 10y ago
    I guess that maybe the point of the game.
  - valarauca1 10y ago
    it would also make the game cheaper if you figure out les[s] computationally intensive algos to win. Yes but a player who was an absolute shite programmer could just throw their bank account at the problem. While my O(n) solution maybe eloquent, they can afford O(n^n) so provided our _players_ make the same outcome the algorithmic complexity is irrelevant if you can afford it. The game uses a soft turn based _ticks_ timer. So provided your O(n^n) solution can execute in 1 tick. Their is no difference.
    - archgoon 10y ago
      > The game uses a soft turn based _ticks_ timer. So provided your O(n^n) solution can execute in 1 tick. Their is no difference. I don't think you're giving your hypothetical shite programmer enough credit here.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > Yes but a player who was an absolute shite programmer could just throw their bank account at the problem. Seems to model reality fairly well.
    - stcredzero 10y ago
      While my O(n) solution maybe eloquent Screeps has a speech API?
      - KirinDave 10y ago
        Holy crap if Screeps allows webhooks to generate events to your modules you could easily use api.ai to do just that!
        stcredzero 10y ago
        Cool, but my comment was really a veiled correction to the previous comment's English.
        KirinDave 10y ago
        Cool, but that's an incredibly boring comment so I made it better. I am confused why you did not accept this pull request.
        stcredzero 10y ago
        Cool, but that's an incredibly boring comment It worked on you!
- ggrochow 10y ago
  the current model is either pay the base-sub, or play in CPU limited mode. the only P2W interactions could be buying subscription tokens and selling them on the market for ingame credits (which you'd then use to buy more resources off the market from other players). You cannot purchase more compute time than the subscription allows CPU-Wise, if you pay the compute time is tied to your account level, with a hard-cap if you're level 30 (there are still only a few players that have achieved this, it takes many months)
harigov 10y ago
Maybe they should open this up as a AI programming platform and sell any algorithms that come out of it.
- mdpopescu 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure that would quickly get them in trouble because of copyright issues...
  - JokerDan 10y ago
    Unless they explicitly stated any players submit their rights to ownership of the algorithms they write. Even then I feel an open source alternative geared towards research would be better than a for-profit closed source organisation, but they will have their own business needs and ideas they want to stick to.
    - y4mi 10y ago
      It says open source on steam and it links to a GitHub repo. Didn't verify, but seemed legit
- stale2002 10y ago
  That's dumb. Any algorithms that players come up with will almost certainly only be useful for playing the game.
NhanH 10y ago
Back then, it was capped at $30,and unless you are in the top 10-20 players, you can get by with a lot less. In any case, the pricing model has changed and it is $9/month flat rate, so that concern is obsolete now.
- keithnz 10y ago
  so, its now around the price of netflix? hmmmm, and could easily add up to a AAA game? seems a bit off
  - trothamel 10y ago
    Why? This is $84 a year for the high-end subscription, including Steam discounts, which isn't really that much money. I don't know if the game is any good, but if you're the type of person that considers it to be, that is the sort of money that can be well worth playing for the feelings of accomplishment the game provides. That's why games can have monthly costs that are similar to Netflix, with much less content - Netflix doesn't provide the same sort of sense of accomplishing something. (Let's ignore the fact that nothing in the game world might actually matter - it's the feeling that is important.)
  - JamesBarney 10y ago
    Only if you play it for more than 6 months which is a lot longer than I usually play a AAA game.
- vans 10y ago
  far too high
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    Sound like perhaps you aren't the target market? People should be able to price at what they want to, without getting HN flak.
    - Y_Y 10y ago
LanceH 10y ago
I believe it is pay one price and you get as much computing ability as your level indicates.
- libc 10y ago
  This is correct. If you buy it on Steam you get access to an offline/local server, in addition to being able to play in the persistent universe for free but with a severely limited CPU cap. There is also a way to purchase CPU time with ingame currency similar to EVE Online.
brlewis 10y ago
I wonder if they could pay for the service with recruitment ads targeted by demonstrated programming skill.
ggrochow 10y ago
Something worth mentioning, they recently introduced a "Subscription Token" item that you can purchase for real $, and sell on the market ingame for credits. That also means you can essentially purchase game-time for in-game credits I purchased the game, 2 months of subscription, and have been using ingame-credits to fund my sub for the following 5 months ( I've currently got an additional 4 months of time in tokens that im trading on the market as well ) While it did take some time to get ramped up, and I am in a safe area with my alliance. A player can, with a little market interaction, not pay IRL money for the game. (you will have to survive long enough to get there, expect to get killed off a few times before you figure out defense)
- snerbles 10y ago
  This is the same concept as EVE's PLEX item, which was introduced to combat TOS-violating real money transactions. In-game prices are subject to in-game market fluctuations, which are relatively stable. Ever since then, any headline involving EVE player shenanigans and a dollar amount is derived from this one-way exchange rate.
tedivm 10y ago
Yeah you're definitely thinking of the old pricing model, which turned off a lot of people. The new model is a flat per month fee of $8, and you can't spend more money to get more CPU.
JoeDaDude 10y ago
The price on Steam allows one to play solo or on private servers without a subscription.

rhaps0dy 10y ago

It also implies some sort of pay to win - with more compute you can presumably do search algorithms that act smarter.

onion2k 10y ago
If your code isn't good enough to compete against other players you'll actually be paying to lose...
lawless123 10y ago
it would also make the game cheaper if you figure out less computationally intensive algos to win.
- harigov 10y ago
  I guess that maybe the point of the game.
- valarauca1 10y ago
  it would also make the game cheaper if you figure out les[s] computationally intensive algos to win. Yes but a player who was an absolute shite programmer could just throw their bank account at the problem. While my O(n) solution maybe eloquent, they can afford O(n^n) so provided our _players_ make the same outcome the algorithmic complexity is irrelevant if you can afford it. The game uses a soft turn based _ticks_ timer. So provided your O(n^n) solution can execute in 1 tick. Their is no difference.
  - archgoon 10y ago
    > The game uses a soft turn based _ticks_ timer. So provided your O(n^n) solution can execute in 1 tick. Their is no difference. I don't think you're giving your hypothetical shite programmer enough credit here.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > Yes but a player who was an absolute shite programmer could just throw their bank account at the problem. Seems to model reality fairly well.
  - stcredzero 10y ago
    While my O(n) solution maybe eloquent Screeps has a speech API?
    - KirinDave 10y ago
      Holy crap if Screeps allows webhooks to generate events to your modules you could easily use api.ai to do just that!
      - stcredzero 10y ago
        Cool, but my comment was really a veiled correction to the previous comment's English.
        KirinDave 10y ago
        Cool, but that's an incredibly boring comment so I made it better. I am confused why you did not accept this pull request.
        stcredzero 10y ago
        Cool, but that's an incredibly boring comment It worked on you!
ggrochow 10y ago
the current model is either pay the base-sub, or play in CPU limited mode. the only P2W interactions could be buying subscription tokens and selling them on the market for ingame credits (which you'd then use to buy more resources off the market from other players). You cannot purchase more compute time than the subscription allows CPU-Wise, if you pay the compute time is tied to your account level, with a hard-cap if you're level 30 (there are still only a few players that have achieved this, it takes many months)

harigov 10y ago

Maybe they should open this up as a AI programming platform and sell any algorithms that come out of it.

mdpopescu 10y ago
I'm pretty sure that would quickly get them in trouble because of copyright issues...
- JokerDan 10y ago
  Unless they explicitly stated any players submit their rights to ownership of the algorithms they write. Even then I feel an open source alternative geared towards research would be better than a for-profit closed source organisation, but they will have their own business needs and ideas they want to stick to.
  - y4mi 10y ago
    It says open source on steam and it links to a GitHub repo. Didn't verify, but seemed legit
stale2002 10y ago
That's dumb. Any algorithms that players come up with will almost certainly only be useful for playing the game.

NhanH 10y ago

Back then, it was capped at $30,and unless you are in the top 10-20 players, you can get by with a lot less. In any case, the pricing model has changed and it is $9/month flat rate, so that concern is obsolete now.

keithnz 10y ago
so, its now around the price of netflix? hmmmm, and could easily add up to a AAA game? seems a bit off
- trothamel 10y ago
  Why? This is $84 a year for the high-end subscription, including Steam discounts, which isn't really that much money. I don't know if the game is any good, but if you're the type of person that considers it to be, that is the sort of money that can be well worth playing for the feelings of accomplishment the game provides. That's why games can have monthly costs that are similar to Netflix, with much less content - Netflix doesn't provide the same sort of sense of accomplishing something. (Let's ignore the fact that nothing in the game world might actually matter - it's the feeling that is important.)
- JamesBarney 10y ago
  Only if you play it for more than 6 months which is a lot longer than I usually play a AAA game.
vans 10y ago
far too high
- brianwawok 10y ago
  Sound like perhaps you aren't the target market? People should be able to price at what they want to, without getting HN flak.
  - Y_Y 10y ago

LanceH 10y ago

I believe it is pay one price and you get as much computing ability as your level indicates.

libc 10y ago
This is correct. If you buy it on Steam you get access to an offline/local server, in addition to being able to play in the persistent universe for free but with a severely limited CPU cap. There is also a way to purchase CPU time with ingame currency similar to EVE Online.

brlewis 10y ago

I wonder if they could pay for the service with recruitment ads targeted by demonstrated programming skill.

ggrochow 10y ago

Something worth mentioning, they recently introduced a "Subscription Token" item that you can purchase for real $, and sell on the market ingame for credits. That also means you can essentially purchase game-time for in-game credits I purchased the game, 2 months of subscription, and have been using ingame-credits to fund my sub for the following 5 months ( I've currently got an additional 4 months of time in tokens that im trading on the market as well ) While it did take some time to get ramped up, and I am in a safe area with my alliance. A player can, with a little market interaction, not pay IRL money for the game. (you will have to survive long enough to get there, expect to get killed off a few times before you figure out defense)

snerbles 10y ago
This is the same concept as EVE's PLEX item, which was introduced to combat TOS-violating real money transactions. In-game prices are subject to in-game market fluctuations, which are relatively stable. Ever since then, any headline involving EVE player shenanigans and a dollar amount is derived from this one-way exchange rate.

tedivm 10y ago

Yeah you're definitely thinking of the old pricing model, which turned off a lot of people. The new model is a flat per month fee of $8, and you can't spend more money to get more CPU.

JoeDaDude 10y ago

The price on Steam allows one to play solo or on private servers without a subscription.