4 ms·

Just curious, has anyone any insight into what that "hidden high security feature is"?

by d--b 10y ago

chrisseaton 10y ago
I think it's some kind of radio signal transceiver, because I saw a video where they talk about detecting it at high speed from a small distance as coins pass through a system.
- TorKlingberg 10y ago
  That seems expensive, and easy to find by cutting one apart. I suspect it's something about the metal composition, detected with spectroscopy.
  - JorgeGT 10y ago
    It could be a passive radio device, maybe just a loop of ferromagnetic material that gives a particularly noticeable electromagnetic response when excited at a certain radiofrequency.
    - VLM 10y ago
      A 1 uCi radioactive source is exempt in the USA yet quite easily detectable. I suspect sooner or later someone is going to try radioactive currency. I'm so old that when I went to uni we did a neutron activation of silver experiment in physics class because the half life of whatever isotope of silver was about a minute, so after an hour of lab you could put the coin back in your pocket. I don't know if they'd let college kids play with either a solid silver quarter from a few decades ago (probably worth a couple bucks today) OR a low level neutron source today. I could see picking some very obscure isotope of some obscure metal and dissolving it into the metal of the coin and if your xray metal analysis machine that scrapyards have (a kilobuck ish cost in a hand held device) detects the proper amount of iridium or whatever or a simple neutron activation followed by gamma spectrometer shows the right isotope in there... Aside from spontaneous emissions and activation reactions, there are some weird cross sections out there. Whatever's irresistable to thermal neutrons thats used in reactors, probably a cadmium alloy, could be the core of a coin, and then blasting boring thermal neutrons that are semi-transparent to fakes but the cadmium core coins would look pitch black from eating all the neutrons. Or play the opposite game and make the coins out of pure neutron-transparent zirconium and only the neutron transparent coins are legit.
  - kregasaurusrex 10y ago
    Especially for an object designed for mass circulation, any secret information about such a coin would be found out through various destructive engineering techniques, and then the info would be in the wild anyway. Coins have been proven to work for the past millenia without any major changes and I don't see a space for innovation within it.
    - madez 10y ago
      One could replace a coin by a small circuit that represents a physically unclonable function and a cryptographic certificate by the state, saying that this is a valid coin. Make it look like a normal coin so people can trade by hand, but in any store interaction they could be checked.
- dingaling 10y ago
  Which also tallies with the stylistic ripples emanating from the centre of the coin in the promotional video, when the 'hidden feature' is mentioned.
- tim333 10y ago
  I don't think it's that. >iSIS™ (Integrated Secure Identification Systems) is a direct derivation of covert and forensic features used in banknotes, comprising a unique additive technology – already used not only in banknotes but also in other industries such as fuel and perfume. This, however, is the first time it has been applied to coinage. >The additive is incorporated into coins using The Royal Mint’s aRMour® full-plate technology and can be authenticated via high-speed automated detection. As it forms part of the electroplating process, it is not a surface coating and will not wear off over time. Maybe it can be detected by spectral analysis of light like they do to see what gasses the sun is made of? http://web.archive.org/web/20131119210211/http://www.currency-news.com/best-new-coin-innovation-2013-finalist-02 http://web.archive.org/web/20131119210211/http://www.currenc...
signa11 10y ago
not sure of the veracity of the following: http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2014/03/what-is-the-new-1-coins-isis-security-system/ http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2014/03/what-is-the-new-1-coins-isi... but it might give you some insights...
- DonaldFisk 10y ago
  I was about to post the same link. They couldn't have thought of a worse name for it. IIRC when copper-plated steel 1p and 2p coins were introduced (up until then they were bronze), they caused havoc with vending machines, whose manufacturers weren't forewarned.
makomk 10y ago
I know there was some public talk a few years back about them using a combination of phosphorescent materials that absorbed and re-emitted specific frequencies of light. Not sure if that's what they ended up going with in the end.

Just curious, has anyone any insight into what that "hidden high security feature is"?

by d--b 10y ago

Just curious, has anyone any insight into what that "hidden high security feature is"?

I think it's some kind of radio signal transceiver, because I saw a video where they talk about detecting it at high speed from a small distance as coins pass through a system.

TorKlingberg 10y ago
That seems expensive, and easy to find by cutting one apart. I suspect it's something about the metal composition, detected with spectroscopy.
- JorgeGT 10y ago
  It could be a passive radio device, maybe just a loop of ferromagnetic material that gives a particularly noticeable electromagnetic response when excited at a certain radiofrequency.
  - VLM 10y ago
    A 1 uCi radioactive source is exempt in the USA yet quite easily detectable. I suspect sooner or later someone is going to try radioactive currency. I'm so old that when I went to uni we did a neutron activation of silver experiment in physics class because the half life of whatever isotope of silver was about a minute, so after an hour of lab you could put the coin back in your pocket. I don't know if they'd let college kids play with either a solid silver quarter from a few decades ago (probably worth a couple bucks today) OR a low level neutron source today. I could see picking some very obscure isotope of some obscure metal and dissolving it into the metal of the coin and if your xray metal analysis machine that scrapyards have (a kilobuck ish cost in a hand held device) detects the proper amount of iridium or whatever or a simple neutron activation followed by gamma spectrometer shows the right isotope in there... Aside from spontaneous emissions and activation reactions, there are some weird cross sections out there. Whatever's irresistable to thermal neutrons thats used in reactors, probably a cadmium alloy, could be the core of a coin, and then blasting boring thermal neutrons that are semi-transparent to fakes but the cadmium core coins would look pitch black from eating all the neutrons. Or play the opposite game and make the coins out of pure neutron-transparent zirconium and only the neutron transparent coins are legit.
- kregasaurusrex 10y ago
  Especially for an object designed for mass circulation, any secret information about such a coin would be found out through various destructive engineering techniques, and then the info would be in the wild anyway. Coins have been proven to work for the past millenia without any major changes and I don't see a space for innovation within it.
  - madez 10y ago
    One could replace a coin by a small circuit that represents a physically unclonable function and a cryptographic certificate by the state, saying that this is a valid coin. Make it look like a normal coin so people can trade by hand, but in any store interaction they could be checked.
dingaling 10y ago
Which also tallies with the stylistic ripples emanating from the centre of the coin in the promotional video, when the 'hidden feature' is mentioned.
tim333 10y ago
I don't think it's that. >iSIS™ (Integrated Secure Identification Systems) is a direct derivation of covert and forensic features used in banknotes, comprising a unique additive technology – already used not only in banknotes but also in other industries such as fuel and perfume. This, however, is the first time it has been applied to coinage. >The additive is incorporated into coins using The Royal Mint’s aRMour® full-plate technology and can be authenticated via high-speed automated detection. As it forms part of the electroplating process, it is not a surface coating and will not wear off over time. Maybe it can be detected by spectral analysis of light like they do to see what gasses the sun is made of? http://web.archive.org/web/20131119210211/http://www.currency-news.com/best-new-coin-innovation-2013-finalist-02 http://web.archive.org/web/20131119210211/http://www.currenc...

signa11 10y ago

not sure of the veracity of the following: http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2014/03/what-is-the-new-1-coins-isis-security-system/ http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2014/03/what-is-the-new-1-coins-isi... but it might give you some insights...

DonaldFisk 10y ago
I was about to post the same link. They couldn't have thought of a worse name for it. IIRC when copper-plated steel 1p and 2p coins were introduced (up until then they were bronze), they caused havoc with vending machines, whose manufacturers weren't forewarned.

makomk 10y ago

I know there was some public talk a few years back about them using a combination of phosphorescent materials that absorbed and re-emitted specific frequencies of light. Not sure if that's what they ended up going with in the end.