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Is counterfeiting coins very lucrative?

by himlion 10y ago

moomin 10y ago
Hard to know, but what I do know is it tends to be done in bulk. You need someone with a job that handles a lot of cash e.g. a sandwich shop. Then they are given 1,000 coins to mix in with the float. What I don't know is the going rate for 1,000 fakes.
- _delirium 10y ago
  Bulk shipments of as many as 500,000 have been intercepted in the past, although that was further up the distribution chain than someone trying to actually pass them off in retail: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-33650317 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-33650317
bigbugbag 10y ago
Lucrative for sure as one can tell from the number of fake in circulation. Very lucrative maybe not, I doubt one can become a billionaire unless maybe if the manufacturer if he was the only one making the fakes.
chippy 10y ago
From my other comment above: We know 1 in 30 £1 coins are counterfeit. Take the amount of £1 coins in circulation. Sum the value. Divide by 30. Equals the market in counterfeit coins. From http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-mintage-figures http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-... £1 are 1,671.328 £m / 30 = 55.71 £m The market in counterfeit coins is therefore over 55 million pounds. This is, however the cumulative, total value of the market and not per year.
- Already__Taken 10y ago
  I was curious how much the penny costs to mint as to put your number into context. Only to find the Royal Mint won't release per coin detail since they mint other coins not for the UK it's classed as a commercial secret. Which means for all the effort put into our currency we might actually be turning a profit on the capability. ref: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/costs_per_unit_of_minting_each_b#comment-54330 https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/costs_per_unit_of_min...
- refurb 10y ago
  That doesn't really answer the question though. Is all the effort to create a fake 1 GBP coin worth it? Unless you have access to the right equipment, I can't imagine it is based on the effort to make each coin. If you can make 8x1 GBP coins a hour, then you clear a cool 64 GBP each day. Better than nothing (and tax free!), but there are a lot of jobs that pay better than that.
  - falsedan 10y ago
    Well yeah, you'd buy a stamping press and mint 10k/day. I fear HN underestimates the amount of work people will do to avoid getting a boring (legal) job.
logfromblammo 10y ago
Yes. That's why the government doesn't want amateurs cutting in on their business.~ Some people--though not many--survive that can remember when newly-minted coins still had silver in them. Then governments all over the world got greedy and debased their coinage, upping the seigniorage to obscene levels to turn their mints into profit centers instead of cost centers. So whenever I see governments complaining about counterfeit currency, I feel that they are hoist on their own petard. They learned it by watching you. I am honestly impressed that a system run almost entirely on public confidence can get away with so much chronic, endemic chicanery. I was really hoping that India's little experiment in destroying its economy by removing larger-denomination cash would have resulted in a tiny bit of blood in the streets, pour encourager les autres. Without pushback, the trend will continue. So the world really, really needs a currency system that no one can effectively manipulate. Bitcoin gave me hope, but so far no cryptocurrency is anywhere near ready for universal adoption.

Is counterfeiting coins very lucrative?

by himlion 10y ago

Is counterfeiting coins very lucrative?

Hard to know, but what I do know is it tends to be done in bulk. You need someone with a job that handles a lot of cash e.g. a sandwich shop. Then they are given 1,000 coins to mix in with the float. What I don't know is the going rate for 1,000 fakes.

_delirium 10y ago
Bulk shipments of as many as 500,000 have been intercepted in the past, although that was further up the distribution chain than someone trying to actually pass them off in retail: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-33650317 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-33650317

bigbugbag 10y ago

Lucrative for sure as one can tell from the number of fake in circulation. Very lucrative maybe not, I doubt one can become a billionaire unless maybe if the manufacturer if he was the only one making the fakes.

chippy 10y ago

From my other comment above: We know 1 in 30 £1 coins are counterfeit. Take the amount of £1 coins in circulation. Sum the value. Divide by 30. Equals the market in counterfeit coins. From http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-mintage-figures http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/circulation-coin-... £1 are 1,671.328 £m / 30 = 55.71 £m The market in counterfeit coins is therefore over 55 million pounds. This is, however the cumulative, total value of the market and not per year.

Already__Taken 10y ago
I was curious how much the penny costs to mint as to put your number into context. Only to find the Royal Mint won't release per coin detail since they mint other coins not for the UK it's classed as a commercial secret. Which means for all the effort put into our currency we might actually be turning a profit on the capability. ref: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/costs_per_unit_of_minting_each_b#comment-54330 https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/costs_per_unit_of_min...
refurb 10y ago
That doesn't really answer the question though. Is all the effort to create a fake 1 GBP coin worth it? Unless you have access to the right equipment, I can't imagine it is based on the effort to make each coin. If you can make 8x1 GBP coins a hour, then you clear a cool 64 GBP each day. Better than nothing (and tax free!), but there are a lot of jobs that pay better than that.
- falsedan 10y ago
  Well yeah, you'd buy a stamping press and mint 10k/day. I fear HN underestimates the amount of work people will do to avoid getting a boring (legal) job.

logfromblammo 10y ago

Yes. That's why the government doesn't want amateurs cutting in on their business.~ Some people--though not many--survive that can remember when newly-minted coins still had silver in them. Then governments all over the world got greedy and debased their coinage, upping the seigniorage to obscene levels to turn their mints into profit centers instead of cost centers. So whenever I see governments complaining about counterfeit currency, I feel that they are hoist on their own petard. They learned it by watching you. I am honestly impressed that a system run almost entirely on public confidence can get away with so much chronic, endemic chicanery. I was really hoping that India's little experiment in destroying its economy by removing larger-denomination cash would have resulted in a tiny bit of blood in the streets, pour encourager les autres. Without pushback, the trend will continue. So the world really, really needs a currency system that no one can effectively manipulate. Bitcoin gave me hope, but so far no cryptocurrency is anywhere near ready for universal adoption.