5 ms·

Meanwhile, global inequality has gone down, because desperately poor Indians and Chinese have grown significantly wealthier. https://s3.amazonaws.com/content.w

Meanwhile, global inequality has gone down, because desperately poor Indians and Chinese have grown significantly wealthier. https://s3.amazonaws.com/content.washingtonexaminer.biz/web-producers/062816carney-Elephant.png https://s3.amazonaws.com/content.washingtonexaminer.biz/web-... I feel so bad for those rich westerners with a house, running water, 24/7 electricity, free schools, etc.

mistermann 10y ago
The fact that living conditions improving for people in the 3rd world makes you feel better maybe doesn't do as much for "rich westerners" whose jobs have moved overseas.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  Helping the less rich Americans does nothing for the 1% either. What's your point?
  - nercht12 10y ago
    I think he means you're taking from one to give to another, which eventually results in the former being as worse off as the latter was, so the sum total of your "humanitarian effort" ultimately amounts to zero. But that's a guess.
    - yummyfajitas 10y ago
      That's actually not true. The number of people living in absolute poverty (for various definitions of it) has gone down drastically. http://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_world-poverty-since-1820-in-absolute-numbers.png http://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/ourworl... http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DEC/Images/84796-1179761045903/3798749-1330548119519/poverty_line_450x378.gif http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DEC/Images/84796-11797610... https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20130601_FBC698.png https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/images/... Really, the only issue seems to be a loss of status (not goods and services) by some rich white westerners. (Non-white westerners seem to have improved their situation by quite a bit also.)
      - dukeluke 10y ago
        We haven't just lost status. We've lost leverage and loyalty too. Globalization has made the demand for lower class labor in the US drop to the point where the uneducated cannot do well anymore. In a balanced economy, there's a demand for everyone, yet in our outsourced service economy, only the highly educated do well. The opioid epidemic isn't here because of a loss of status.
      - mistermann 10y ago
        > Really, the only issue seems to be a loss of status (not goods and services) by some rich white westerners. You're saying there have been literally no negative effects from globalization? That unemployment in the rust belt has had no effect on standard of living?
DarkKomunalec 10y ago
> I feel so bad for those rich westerners with a house, running water, 24/7 electricity, free schools, etc. Yeah, until western countries have fallen to the level of the worst parts of Somalia, we really shouldn't complain.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  If you think things are so bad, surely you can name a single good or service that westerners have less of today than they had in 1970. What is that good or service?
  - anon1385 10y ago
    Housing. In the UK home ownership is lower for people under 45 than it was (for people of the same ages) in 1981. For example 62.1% of 25-34 year olds owned a home in 1981. In 2012 42.8% of 25-34 year olds owned a home.
  - DarkKomunalec 10y ago
    Education: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/14/college-costs-median-income_n_3443806.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/14/college-costs-media... Healthcare: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/health-care-costs-_n_3998425.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/health-care-costs-_... Housing: http://www.jparsons.net/housingbubble/ http://www.jparsons.net/housingbubble/ - compared to the rise in wages, this cost increase has been much more moderate, but it's still an increase. All while productivity has grown: http://blogs.reuters.com/macroscope/2012/05/04/the-u-s-productivity-farce/ http://blogs.reuters.com/macroscope/2012/05/04/the-u-s-produ...
    - yummyfajitas 10y ago
      Nope. College enrollment has never been higher. Your source claims it is less "affordable", but clearly far more people can afford it. Weird. http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/college-enrollment-high-school.png http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/colleg... http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Enrollment.png http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Enroll... Your second article says health care is more expensive than other countries, not that fewer people consume it than some past period. Looking at real resources (e.g. # of health care employees) suggests more people consume it, not less. https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/3rdparty/2013/7/healthcare20job20changes.jpg https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/3rdparty/2013/7... Your third source does not claim fewer people consume housing than at some past point. In fact, people consume more housing than ever before - houses have nearly doubled in size since 1973, even as # of people in the household decreased. https://www.nar.realtor/RMODaily.nsf/pages/News2007032701?OpenDocument https://www.nar.realtor/RMODaily.nsf/pages/News2007032701?Op... Or if you prefer primary sources: https://www2.census.gov/prod2/ahsscan/h150-80e.pdf https://www2.census.gov/prod2/ahsscan/h150-80e.pdf https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/ahs/2013/factsheets/ahs13-1_UnitedStates.pdf https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/ahs/2013/factsheets... Care to try again?

mistermann 10y ago

The fact that living conditions improving for people in the 3rd world makes you feel better maybe doesn't do as much for "rich westerners" whose jobs have moved overseas.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
Helping the less rich Americans does nothing for the 1% either. What's your point?
- nercht12 10y ago
  I think he means you're taking from one to give to another, which eventually results in the former being as worse off as the latter was, so the sum total of your "humanitarian effort" ultimately amounts to zero. But that's a guess.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    That's actually not true. The number of people living in absolute poverty (for various definitions of it) has gone down drastically. http://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/ourworldindata_world-poverty-since-1820-in-absolute-numbers.png http://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/ourworl... http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DEC/Images/84796-1179761045903/3798749-1330548119519/poverty_line_450x378.gif http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DEC/Images/84796-11797610... https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20130601_FBC698.png https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/images/... Really, the only issue seems to be a loss of status (not goods and services) by some rich white westerners. (Non-white westerners seem to have improved their situation by quite a bit also.)
    - dukeluke 10y ago
      We haven't just lost status. We've lost leverage and loyalty too. Globalization has made the demand for lower class labor in the US drop to the point where the uneducated cannot do well anymore. In a balanced economy, there's a demand for everyone, yet in our outsourced service economy, only the highly educated do well. The opioid epidemic isn't here because of a loss of status.
    - mistermann 10y ago
      > Really, the only issue seems to be a loss of status (not goods and services) by some rich white westerners. You're saying there have been literally no negative effects from globalization? That unemployment in the rust belt has had no effect on standard of living?

DarkKomunalec 10y ago

> I feel so bad for those rich westerners with a house, running water, 24/7 electricity, free schools, etc. Yeah, until western countries have fallen to the level of the worst parts of Somalia, we really shouldn't complain.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
If you think things are so bad, surely you can name a single good or service that westerners have less of today than they had in 1970. What is that good or service?
- anon1385 10y ago
  Housing. In the UK home ownership is lower for people under 45 than it was (for people of the same ages) in 1981. For example 62.1% of 25-34 year olds owned a home in 1981. In 2012 42.8% of 25-34 year olds owned a home.
- DarkKomunalec 10y ago
  Education: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/14/college-costs-median-income_n_3443806.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/14/college-costs-media... Healthcare: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/health-care-costs-_n_3998425.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/health-care-costs-_... Housing: http://www.jparsons.net/housingbubble/ http://www.jparsons.net/housingbubble/ - compared to the rise in wages, this cost increase has been much more moderate, but it's still an increase. All while productivity has grown: http://blogs.reuters.com/macroscope/2012/05/04/the-u-s-productivity-farce/ http://blogs.reuters.com/macroscope/2012/05/04/the-u-s-produ...
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    Nope. College enrollment has never been higher. Your source claims it is less "affordable", but clearly far more people can afford it. Weird. http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/college-enrollment-high-school.png http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/colleg... http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Enrollment.png http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Enroll... Your second article says health care is more expensive than other countries, not that fewer people consume it than some past period. Looking at real resources (e.g. # of health care employees) suggests more people consume it, not less. https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/3rdparty/2013/7/healthcare20job20changes.jpg https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/3rdparty/2013/7... Your third source does not claim fewer people consume housing than at some past point. In fact, people consume more housing than ever before - houses have nearly doubled in size since 1973, even as # of people in the household decreased. https://www.nar.realtor/RMODaily.nsf/pages/News2007032701?OpenDocument https://www.nar.realtor/RMODaily.nsf/pages/News2007032701?Op... Or if you prefer primary sources: https://www2.census.gov/prod2/ahsscan/h150-80e.pdf https://www2.census.gov/prod2/ahsscan/h150-80e.pdf https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/ahs/2013/factsheets/ahs13-1_UnitedStates.pdf https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/ahs/2013/factsheets... Care to try again?