6 ms·

I can't quite put a finger on it but "Wow. That sounds hard." potentially risks coming off as patronizing.

by throwaway2016a 10y ago

nunez 10y ago
I prefer "That's really interesting; what's a day in your life like?" People love talking about this because people spend most of their lives working, so most of their life is work.
- personlurking 10y ago
  I find this to be a good approach too, unless they're in the midst of a PhD program, then they have zero interest in talking about their day cause their dissertation is all-consuming.
  - nunez 10y ago
    Actually most people working on their dissertation love talking about it since that dissertation is practically their entire life. I try to get them to speak in their language and try to understand their world better: how they approached their research, what mistakes they encountered, how they learned from them.
    - personlurking 10y ago
      I moved to a city a few years back where it was like every single person I met was a PhD student and none wanted to talk about what they did (some I wouldn't be able to understand anyways, such as astrophysicists, but others I could, if they'd have wanted to talk about it). They'd all mention the general topic, but that's about it. It was quite weird because I happen to share your view and wanted to know more.
rrherr 10y ago
Yes, if you're insincere, it's patronizing. So it requires empathy and curiosity. If done right, it's just like the old Dale Carnegie quote: You can make more friends in two months by becoming interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you.
- throwaway2016a 10y ago
  I think it depends more on how cynical and/or confident the person you are talking to is. A cynical person will assume you are insincere even if you aren't. An unconfident person will think you're just being polite.
  - Baeocystin 10y ago
    It really, honestly doesn't. A good conversationalist knows how to draw trust from their partner. One of the great benefits of learning how to listen and respond with genuine interest is that you can pierce the walls people put up. There is no one 'key'; it only comes with practice.
    - throwaway2016a 10y ago
      Personally, I have never met an adult[1] in my life who can start a sentence with "Wow" and come off as convincing. "Wow" just sets off my bull shit detector (rightly or not). Albeit that doesn't prove you are wrong. It could also mean I haven't ever met a "good conversationalist" who has used that word with me. Seeing as I have read "How to Win Friend's An Influence People" (twice) and 90% of the people I know do the exact opposite of what the book suggests, it could indeed be I have never met those people. It's not that there aren't things they can say that would be convincing, just the specific quote the OP used -- "Wow. That sounds hard” -- would not only be not effective on me, it would be detrimental. [1] I have to specify adult because I have met children who use it convincingly.
      - nsp 10y ago
        In the original version I heard from him, perhaps on his podcast, he mentioned that he usually uses a stronger exclamation than that but hs a policy of not cursing in whatever publication the written piece appeared in.
      - Baeocystin 10y ago
        When considering soft things like conversational flow, try not to get too focused on the use of any one particular word. Look to the intent behind the phrase. "Wow, that sounds hard" is fundamentally 1) an expression of genuine acknowledgement, and 2) an opening to learn more about what is clearly important to the person you're talking to. The skill is in finding something about your partner that you can say these things honestly about. You do that, and whatever actual words you use to express it don't really matter that much. The emotional intent behind your words will ring clear.
btown 10y ago
Of course you don't just say that. Recall from OP how mirroring works: you listen, repeat, label/distill. Odds are there is some part of what they said that you'd sincerely be curious to learn more about, that you think you might be able to relate to. (If it was a brief "I'm a ___" response, ask questions about the field to get to that point, etc.) And at some point you spin things positive like "But X part of the job is probably exciting, right?" Which is a segue into what you're passionate about yourself after they answer. The key is to be genuinely curious and show it in body language. For the first part, approach every conversation as if it was a 100-upvote HN posting "Why X is more complicated than you might think." Right? Don't be fake, just rationally hold back the impulse to be cynical. The second part takes practice, but nodding, mirroring their body language, shoulders back open stance, etc. are a good start, and you can feel good about doing that if you are genuine, which shows. It all comes down to empathy and knowing how to show it.
- throwaway2016a 10y ago
  I agree with you. But I found the origional Paul Ford source article [1]... and I could be wrong but the way I read it I think it actually is saying to use exactly those words. [1] https://medium.com/message/how-to-be-polite-9bf1e69e888c#.4culv2w2r https://medium.com/message/how-to-be-polite-9bf1e69e888c#.4c...

I can't quite put a finger on it but "Wow. That sounds hard." potentially risks coming off as patronizing.

nunez 10y ago

I prefer "That's really interesting; what's a day in your life like?" People love talking about this because people spend most of their lives working, so most of their life is work.

personlurking 10y ago
I find this to be a good approach too, unless they're in the midst of a PhD program, then they have zero interest in talking about their day cause their dissertation is all-consuming.
- nunez 10y ago
  Actually most people working on their dissertation love talking about it since that dissertation is practically their entire life. I try to get them to speak in their language and try to understand their world better: how they approached their research, what mistakes they encountered, how they learned from them.
  - personlurking 10y ago
    I moved to a city a few years back where it was like every single person I met was a PhD student and none wanted to talk about what they did (some I wouldn't be able to understand anyways, such as astrophysicists, but others I could, if they'd have wanted to talk about it). They'd all mention the general topic, but that's about it. It was quite weird because I happen to share your view and wanted to know more.

rrherr 10y ago

Yes, if you're insincere, it's patronizing. So it requires empathy and curiosity. If done right, it's just like the old Dale Carnegie quote: You can make more friends in two months by becoming interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you.

throwaway2016a 10y ago
I think it depends more on how cynical and/or confident the person you are talking to is. A cynical person will assume you are insincere even if you aren't. An unconfident person will think you're just being polite.
- Baeocystin 10y ago
  It really, honestly doesn't. A good conversationalist knows how to draw trust from their partner. One of the great benefits of learning how to listen and respond with genuine interest is that you can pierce the walls people put up. There is no one 'key'; it only comes with practice.
  - throwaway2016a 10y ago
    Personally, I have never met an adult[1] in my life who can start a sentence with "Wow" and come off as convincing. "Wow" just sets off my bull shit detector (rightly or not). Albeit that doesn't prove you are wrong. It could also mean I haven't ever met a "good conversationalist" who has used that word with me. Seeing as I have read "How to Win Friend's An Influence People" (twice) and 90% of the people I know do the exact opposite of what the book suggests, it could indeed be I have never met those people. It's not that there aren't things they can say that would be convincing, just the specific quote the OP used -- "Wow. That sounds hard” -- would not only be not effective on me, it would be detrimental. [1] I have to specify adult because I have met children who use it convincingly.
    - nsp 10y ago
      In the original version I heard from him, perhaps on his podcast, he mentioned that he usually uses a stronger exclamation than that but hs a policy of not cursing in whatever publication the written piece appeared in.
    - Baeocystin 10y ago
      When considering soft things like conversational flow, try not to get too focused on the use of any one particular word. Look to the intent behind the phrase. "Wow, that sounds hard" is fundamentally 1) an expression of genuine acknowledgement, and 2) an opening to learn more about what is clearly important to the person you're talking to. The skill is in finding something about your partner that you can say these things honestly about. You do that, and whatever actual words you use to express it don't really matter that much. The emotional intent behind your words will ring clear.

btown 10y ago

Of course you don't just say that. Recall from OP how mirroring works: you listen, repeat, label/distill. Odds are there is some part of what they said that you'd sincerely be curious to learn more about, that you think you might be able to relate to. (If it was a brief "I'm a ___" response, ask questions about the field to get to that point, etc.) And at some point you spin things positive like "But X part of the job is probably exciting, right?" Which is a segue into what you're passionate about yourself after they answer. The key is to be genuinely curious and show it in body language. For the first part, approach every conversation as if it was a 100-upvote HN posting "Why X is more complicated than you might think." Right? Don't be fake, just rationally hold back the impulse to be cynical. The second part takes practice, but nodding, mirroring their body language, shoulders back open stance, etc. are a good start, and you can feel good about doing that if you are genuine, which shows. It all comes down to empathy and knowing how to show it.

throwaway2016a 10y ago
I agree with you. But I found the origional Paul Ford source article [1]... and I could be wrong but the way I read it I think it actually is saying to use exactly those words. [1] https://medium.com/message/how-to-be-polite-9bf1e69e888c#.4culv2w2r https://medium.com/message/how-to-be-polite-9bf1e69e888c#.4c...