17 ms·

I thought the best single thing was going vegan. Anyway, I sometimes think it's quite funny how my own lifestyle is so much more green than the average "green"

by nawitus 10y ago

I thought the best single thing was going vegan. Anyway, I sometimes think it's quite funny how my own lifestyle is so much more green than the average "green" person. I don't have children, I don't own or drive a car, I only use public transporation, 99% of which runs on electricity. I'm vegan, I haven't been on an airplane for like maybe 4 or 5 years. I live in a modern, energy efficient and small apartment. I buy "100% renewable electricity" in a new, energy efficient "smart city neighbourhood". And of course I recycle. Yet I haven't really tried to be more green, these circumstances have just happened naturally.

nkurz 10y ago
I thought the best single thing was going vegan. I tried to research this a while ago, and I think the numbers work out to say that going from a "standard" American omnivorous diet to a "standard" American vegetarian diet corresponds to a CO2 emissions reduction equivalent a one-way NY-SF flight or drive. Going from that to the a vegan diet is about equivalent to avoiding the return flight or drive. So if you've already avoided having children, and already avoid flying and driving, then going vegan is probably one of the best things you can personally do to reduce your CO2 emissions. But if you haven't yet done those things, changing your diet, while a step in the right direction, may not be enough to effect a major reduction in your emissions. (Sorry for lack of references --- I'll add them up if I can find them again. They were surprisingly hard to find the first time. Corrections appreciated if I've misremembered the figures.)
- soVeryTired 10y ago
  Is that one flight annually or one flight in a lifetime?
  - nkurz 10y ago
    Good point. I believe it's comparing annual to annual, so that each year of diet change equates to one cross-country flight.
wazoox 10y ago
Actually, I'm pretty sure vegans need many energy-intensive or non-local complements or alternatives to simple, local animal products providing essential nutrients like eggs or butter (avocado, or almonds for instance, are almost everywhere terrible from an environmental point of view). Vegetarian is certainly better for the planet; vegan is probably hardly better if not worse. For instance having a couple of hens in your backyard may be exploitative in your book, but it provides a rich, free source of food (several hundred eggs every year), while consuming all of your food remains, vegetables peels, rotten fruits etc. in the most efficient way imaginable. And the hens would be perfectly happy and not harmed in any way, as long as they have reasonable space with some grass and a bush to peck around.
- greglindahl 10y ago
  Wait, are you saying that "having a couple of hens in your backyard" is similar to buying eggs from the grocery store? Because the typical vegetarian eating eggs doesn't get them from hens in their backyard.
  - wazoox 10y ago
    No, this is different for me but apparently not for vegans (no animal product of any sort because it's exploitative, every animal is a person, etc).
    - greglindahl 10y ago
      The vegans I know call one bad and the other worse. However, the point that I was getting at is that you're recommending that people be vegetarians instead of vegans because of the environmental efficiency of feeding chickens scraps in the backyard, but almost everyone doesn't have a backyard, or chickens.
      - wazoox 10y ago
        Unfortunately this is a deep political problem I don't feel like treating in a HN comment box :) I'd simply say that I think that we need to reorganize our world at a simpler scale, build smaller communities, sharing more local resources (like backyards and chickens and potato plots), step back on globalisation, reduce our consumption and environmental footprint, reduce division of labour, share work more, ...
TeMPOraL 10y ago
Which is why I always prefer working on technology to working on culture. With right technological landscape, people can become "green" by just doing what they always do. Trying to change human behaviour directly is a bit like asking water to start flowing uphill on its own.
flukus 10y ago
Alternatively, stick to monogastric (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogastric https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogastric) animals which produce drastically less CO2e. Save the world by eating bacon!

by nawitus 10y ago

nkurz 10y ago

I thought the best single thing was going vegan. I tried to research this a while ago, and I think the numbers work out to say that going from a "standard" American omnivorous diet to a "standard" American vegetarian diet corresponds to a CO2 emissions reduction equivalent a one-way NY-SF flight or drive. Going from that to the a vegan diet is about equivalent to avoiding the return flight or drive. So if you've already avoided having children, and already avoid flying and driving, then going vegan is probably one of the best things you can personally do to reduce your CO2 emissions. But if you haven't yet done those things, changing your diet, while a step in the right direction, may not be enough to effect a major reduction in your emissions. (Sorry for lack of references --- I'll add them up if I can find them again. They were surprisingly hard to find the first time. Corrections appreciated if I've misremembered the figures.)

soVeryTired 10y ago
Is that one flight annually or one flight in a lifetime?
- nkurz 10y ago
  Good point. I believe it's comparing annual to annual, so that each year of diet change equates to one cross-country flight.

wazoox 10y ago

Actually, I'm pretty sure vegans need many energy-intensive or non-local complements or alternatives to simple, local animal products providing essential nutrients like eggs or butter (avocado, or almonds for instance, are almost everywhere terrible from an environmental point of view). Vegetarian is certainly better for the planet; vegan is probably hardly better if not worse. For instance having a couple of hens in your backyard may be exploitative in your book, but it provides a rich, free source of food (several hundred eggs every year), while consuming all of your food remains, vegetables peels, rotten fruits etc. in the most efficient way imaginable. And the hens would be perfectly happy and not harmed in any way, as long as they have reasonable space with some grass and a bush to peck around.

greglindahl 10y ago
Wait, are you saying that "having a couple of hens in your backyard" is similar to buying eggs from the grocery store? Because the typical vegetarian eating eggs doesn't get them from hens in their backyard.
- wazoox 10y ago
  No, this is different for me but apparently not for vegans (no animal product of any sort because it's exploitative, every animal is a person, etc).
  - greglindahl 10y ago
    The vegans I know call one bad and the other worse. However, the point that I was getting at is that you're recommending that people be vegetarians instead of vegans because of the environmental efficiency of feeding chickens scraps in the backyard, but almost everyone doesn't have a backyard, or chickens.
    - wazoox 10y ago
      Unfortunately this is a deep political problem I don't feel like treating in a HN comment box :) I'd simply say that I think that we need to reorganize our world at a simpler scale, build smaller communities, sharing more local resources (like backyards and chickens and potato plots), step back on globalisation, reduce our consumption and environmental footprint, reduce division of labour, share work more, ...

TeMPOraL 10y ago

Which is why I always prefer working on technology to working on culture. With right technological landscape, people can become "green" by just doing what they always do. Trying to change human behaviour directly is a bit like asking water to start flowing uphill on its own.

flukus 10y ago

Alternatively, stick to monogastric (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogastric https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogastric) animals which produce drastically less CO2e. Save the world by eating bacon!