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This keeps popping up and more and more. Being a programmer isn't some completely unique snowflake experience. Concentration exists in all fields. Try writing a

This keeps popping up and more and more. Being a programmer isn't some completely unique snowflake experience. Concentration exists in all fields. Try writing a novel or composing a song. Having someone interrupt your "zone" is just as unsettling and frustrating. Because we have to think through some patterns and logic doesn't mean our focus is any more enlightened. This just feels like continued gatekeeping.

dasmoth 10y ago
Novelists don't generally get packed into open plan offices and told they need to collaborate more. I think a better question is why, of all the kinds of "flow"-based knowledge work, has programming become so strongly associated with the idea that interruptability and collaboration should take precedence over sitting down and working through the problem?
- SnowingXIV 10y ago
  I don't think it's unique there either, sure Bay Area probably has a strong culture around that but even in other industries like finance you'll still see them embracing the open office model which causes the same problems. The conversation should be more focused on advocating for better management tactics and transparency on the work being done (e.g HR missing the mark on knowing anything about the positions they hire). Focus is needed in most (all?) professions and I'd argue so is collaboration.
- Arizhel 10y ago
  Also relevant I think is that novelists are a vanishingly small part of the population. Very, very few people make a living writing novels or other lengthy texts, and not that many people write novels as a hobby (or hoping to sell their book). Not many people write songs either, the other example given here. All in all, I'd say that there just aren't that many jobs these days that require a lot of individual concentration and focus. Those that do seem to have the reputation that it's needed: novelists, some college professors (when they're writing theses/dissertations/whatever), etc. But it's weird; if you asked most people if they think novelists would be more productive at home in their private office, or in a loud, bustling open-office environment, I'll bet most would answer the former. But for some reason people don't seem to think programmers need that.
carapace 10y ago
You not the only person who seems, to me, to be going out of your way to misunderstand the issue here, but I'm going to respond to this comment because I really feel like you are projecting. No one is claiming that non-programmer don't experience flow states. (At least no one worth taking seriously ;-) The problem is (my theory) that programming work looks like any other work/play done in front of a computer: you're sitting there, typing and clicking, looking at some windows with text and menus and stuff. Some people seem unable to grasp that it's breaking flow to interrupt. I have a friend, let's call him "Jeff", who cannot seem to understand that he can't talk to me when I'm using the computer to work. He was my roommate for awhile in a small place where he had to pass my workstation to get to the kitchen. I got in the habit of just closing the laptop when I heard him coming, because he was going to interrupt me and that was as close as I could get to saving my mental state while I waited for him to go away again. I tried to explain it to him several times. I got a t-shirt that said "Don't talk to me when I'm not listening". Still, he kept interrupting me while I'm trying to work. Finally, one morning he comes in to where I am, sits down with his bowl of cereal, and starts playing some earworm cat song on his phone. I lost it and yelled at him, and now he thinks I'm the jerk. I moved out. Some people just don't get it, it's a problem, and the OP was just asking for help dealing with that.

dasmoth 10y ago

Novelists don't generally get packed into open plan offices and told they need to collaborate more. I think a better question is why, of all the kinds of "flow"-based knowledge work, has programming become so strongly associated with the idea that interruptability and collaboration should take precedence over sitting down and working through the problem?

SnowingXIV 10y ago
I don't think it's unique there either, sure Bay Area probably has a strong culture around that but even in other industries like finance you'll still see them embracing the open office model which causes the same problems. The conversation should be more focused on advocating for better management tactics and transparency on the work being done (e.g HR missing the mark on knowing anything about the positions they hire). Focus is needed in most (all?) professions and I'd argue so is collaboration.
Arizhel 10y ago
Also relevant I think is that novelists are a vanishingly small part of the population. Very, very few people make a living writing novels or other lengthy texts, and not that many people write novels as a hobby (or hoping to sell their book). Not many people write songs either, the other example given here. All in all, I'd say that there just aren't that many jobs these days that require a lot of individual concentration and focus. Those that do seem to have the reputation that it's needed: novelists, some college professors (when they're writing theses/dissertations/whatever), etc. But it's weird; if you asked most people if they think novelists would be more productive at home in their private office, or in a loud, bustling open-office environment, I'll bet most would answer the former. But for some reason people don't seem to think programmers need that.

carapace 10y ago

You not the only person who seems, to me, to be going out of your way to misunderstand the issue here, but I'm going to respond to this comment because I really feel like you are projecting. No one is claiming that non-programmer don't experience flow states. (At least no one worth taking seriously ;-) The problem is (my theory) that programming work looks like any other work/play done in front of a computer: you're sitting there, typing and clicking, looking at some windows with text and menus and stuff. Some people seem unable to grasp that it's breaking flow to interrupt. I have a friend, let's call him "Jeff", who cannot seem to understand that he can't talk to me when I'm using the computer to work. He was my roommate for awhile in a small place where he had to pass my workstation to get to the kitchen. I got in the habit of just closing the laptop when I heard him coming, because he was going to interrupt me and that was as close as I could get to saving my mental state while I waited for him to go away again. I tried to explain it to him several times. I got a t-shirt that said "Don't talk to me when I'm not listening". Still, he kept interrupting me while I'm trying to work. Finally, one morning he comes in to where I am, sits down with his bowl of cereal, and starts playing some earworm cat song on his phone. I lost it and yelled at him, and now he thinks I'm the jerk. I moved out. Some people just don't get it, it's a problem, and the OP was just asking for help dealing with that.