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so China is - lead by a billionnaire dictator and son of veteran communist party member, who has shown to purge his enemies, jail innocents/reporters without t

so China is - lead by a billionnaire dictator and son of veteran communist party member, who has shown to purge his enemies, jail innocents/reporters without trial, disappear others. He oppresses the will of hong kongers to self govern, and acts like a crybaby whenever Taiwan, a self-governing democracy, does anything political - controlled by a "congress" of billionnaires, who work together to exploit workers for pennies on the dollar, turn a blind eye to deadly air pollution/water pollution/poisonous food in favor of money, and when in danger, flees to Australia/Canada/US with billions - member in WTO, but never abides by any of the rules. Foreign companies are forced to give up tech, partner with locals, suffer 30% import tax, and eventually, leave due to unfairness. And other countries loses factories/jobs/communities. Internet companies are sometimes banned outright. Of course China needs to spend billions spreading its false/hateful messages via its 50cents army on reddit, facebook, etc. It has a cruel and evil authoritarian dictatorship, that if unchecked, will swallow the world

yomly 10y ago
Let's take a look at America: They spy on you, regardless of if you live in the country or not, committing global espionage[0][1] They do not observe human rights when imprisoning you [2][3] They are happy to bomb civilians using automated robots in the name of freedom and enlisting you to their brand of freedom[4] They are happy to arm terrorists then assassinate them when they are no longer relevant to their cause[5] They will wage illegal wars when it is convenient for them[6] They were happy to obliterate people's homes to conduct nuclear tests in the name of freedom[7] They institutionally protect the interests of the people with the most access to wealth[8] They have elected a narcissistic nepotistic sexist bigot for their president, and do not have free healthcare [no citations necessary] I'm not here to spark a tally of which country has committed more atrocities or which country is better - the world is simply a dirty place, and to this day, humans are still as capable of committing human on human sin. China is no doubt guilty of many crimes too but I find China bashing by other countries reeking of hypocrisy and evidence that our own nations' propaganda machines are well oiled and in full-throttle. The victor writes history. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikileaks-revelations-intelligence-services-using-home-devices-to-watch-citizens https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikile... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikileaks-revelations-intelligence-services-using-home-devices-to-watch-citizens https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikile... [2] http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/10/23/marion_prison_lockdown_thomas_silverstein_how_a_1983_murder_created_america.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/10/23/marion_prison_lo... [3] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/guantanamo-bay-why-was-it-set-up-what-are-the-controversies-and-why-is-obama-looking-to-close-the-a6891516.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/guantanamo-... [4] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-obama-administrations-drone-strike-dissembling/473541/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-oba... [5]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_... [6]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-report-john-prescott-says-tony-blair-led-uk-into-illegal-war-in-iraq-a7129106.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-report... [7]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/06/marshall-islands-nuclear-arms-lawsuit-thrown-out-by-uns-top-court https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/06/marshall-islan... [8]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13925858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13925858 EDIT: added an additional point
- jldugger 10y ago
  We can (and should) complain about this, but the sins of another do not dismiss your own.
  - yomly 10y ago
    Yeah - as I said, I'm not saying China is without sin. I just find China bashing to really be nothing more than an exercise of "pulling the ladder up". Europe was perfectly happy colonising the world in its heyday, as was America in the past. Now that they've entrenched their position in the world, suddenly it's not ok when other people are trying to climb the ladder.
    - kitschshrine 10y ago
      uh, this is 2017, not 1930s. let's judge China by today's standard. You can't absolve a sin from someone today because someone else "used to do it" 100 years ago
    - jahnu 10y ago
      You are implying that China _must_ behave this way in order to become a developed country and then they can adjust to modern standards. Seems silly to me.
  - imjustsaying 10y ago
    >They ...do not have free healthcare [no citations necessary] When I lived and worked in China, for a government entity, the insurance didn't cover anything I ever needed it for and I had to pay out of pocket 100% of the time for all costs. The private healthcare industry is exploding in China right now because the public healthcare system is inadequate. There is no such thing as free healthcare. Even if you install single payer and ration health supplies to the extent more people die on waiting lists like in Canada, the government will still be paying for the little care that remains through your own taxes or debt obligations. More enlightenment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peVLkW7uirI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peVLkW7uirI
mazerackham 10y ago
lol, such brainwashing
imjustsaying 10y ago
People who haven't lived in China have a hard time wrapping their heads around the grave implications of this. There is no free press in China so you can only see a small fraction of the life-destroying problems that are pervasive throughout the country, let alone shine enough light on them to solve them. An extended PR campaign such as this is only going to exacerbate the distortion of reality.
kristianc 10y ago
As it stands, this doesn't sound dissimilar to America (which also spends billions on making the world love it in the name of soft power)
- kitschshrine 10y ago
  well, then you probably need reading comprehension classes. the world isn't black and white, it's shades of grey
  - kristianc 10y ago
    Trump has proposed exactly the same kind of 30% import tax, is also happy to turn a blind eye to air pollution and has handed over the Department of Education to a billionaire who to all intents and purposes bought the job. Perhaps those American exceptionalism rose tinted sunglasses aren't working so well for you.
- caio1982 10y ago
  Your argument has a name: tu quoque.
  - kristianc 10y ago
    Then that argument is true of the Economist's article too, which explicitly quotes Nye.
- dave_sullivan 10y ago
  Boo. False equivalency. Can we acknowledge that this is the favored argument by authoritarian propaganda machines and it's a baseless distraction? It has no place here. More: http://www.npr.org/2017/03/17/520435073/trump-embraces-one-of-russias-favorite-propaganda-tactics-whataboutism http://www.npr.org/2017/03/17/520435073/trump-embraces-one-o...
  - kristianc 10y ago
    The article explicitly cites Nye and how American concept of soft power is being adopted by authoritarian regimes.
user982 10y ago
Your HN account is singularly focused on demonizing China along every axis.
dang 10y ago
Single-purpose accounts aren't allowed on HN. We've banned this one. Using HN primarily for political and ideological battle is also not allowed here, nationalisms included.
T-A 10y ago
> 30% import tax Where did that number come from? Going by this, http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2016/12/06/import-export-taxes-and-duties-in-china.html http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2016/12/06/import-export-... I would expect the usual 10% for WTO members without other trade agreements. If you add the higher 17% VAT rate to that and round up, I guess you can sort of justify "30%", but that's misleading, since VAT applies to domestic companies too.

yomly 10y ago

Let's take a look at America: They spy on you, regardless of if you live in the country or not, committing global espionage[0][1] They do not observe human rights when imprisoning you [2][3] They are happy to bomb civilians using automated robots in the name of freedom and enlisting you to their brand of freedom[4] They are happy to arm terrorists then assassinate them when they are no longer relevant to their cause[5] They will wage illegal wars when it is convenient for them[6] They were happy to obliterate people's homes to conduct nuclear tests in the name of freedom[7] They institutionally protect the interests of the people with the most access to wealth[8] They have elected a narcissistic nepotistic sexist bigot for their president, and do not have free healthcare [no citations necessary] I'm not here to spark a tally of which country has committed more atrocities or which country is better - the world is simply a dirty place, and to this day, humans are still as capable of committing human on human sin. China is no doubt guilty of many crimes too but I find China bashing by other countries reeking of hypocrisy and evidence that our own nations' propaganda machines are well oiled and in full-throttle. The victor writes history. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikileaks-revelations-intelligence-services-using-home-devices-to-watch-citizens https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikile... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikileaks-revelations-intelligence-services-using-home-devices-to-watch-citizens https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/08/wikile... [2] http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/10/23/marion_prison_lockdown_thomas_silverstein_how_a_1983_murder_created_america.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/10/23/marion_prison_lo... [3] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/guantanamo-bay-why-was-it-set-up-what-are-the-controversies-and-why-is-obama-looking-to-close-the-a6891516.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/guantanamo-... [4] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-obama-administrations-drone-strike-dissembling/473541/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-oba... [5]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_... [6]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-report-john-prescott-says-tony-blair-led-uk-into-illegal-war-in-iraq-a7129106.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chilcot-report... [7]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/06/marshall-islands-nuclear-arms-lawsuit-thrown-out-by-uns-top-court https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/06/marshall-islan... [8]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13925858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13925858 EDIT: added an additional point

jldugger 10y ago
We can (and should) complain about this, but the sins of another do not dismiss your own.
- yomly 10y ago
  Yeah - as I said, I'm not saying China is without sin. I just find China bashing to really be nothing more than an exercise of "pulling the ladder up". Europe was perfectly happy colonising the world in its heyday, as was America in the past. Now that they've entrenched their position in the world, suddenly it's not ok when other people are trying to climb the ladder.
  - kitschshrine 10y ago
    uh, this is 2017, not 1930s. let's judge China by today's standard. You can't absolve a sin from someone today because someone else "used to do it" 100 years ago
  - jahnu 10y ago
    You are implying that China _must_ behave this way in order to become a developed country and then they can adjust to modern standards. Seems silly to me.
- imjustsaying 10y ago
  >They ...do not have free healthcare [no citations necessary] When I lived and worked in China, for a government entity, the insurance didn't cover anything I ever needed it for and I had to pay out of pocket 100% of the time for all costs. The private healthcare industry is exploding in China right now because the public healthcare system is inadequate. There is no such thing as free healthcare. Even if you install single payer and ration health supplies to the extent more people die on waiting lists like in Canada, the government will still be paying for the little care that remains through your own taxes or debt obligations. More enlightenment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peVLkW7uirI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peVLkW7uirI

mazerackham 10y ago

lol, such brainwashing

imjustsaying 10y ago

People who haven't lived in China have a hard time wrapping their heads around the grave implications of this. There is no free press in China so you can only see a small fraction of the life-destroying problems that are pervasive throughout the country, let alone shine enough light on them to solve them. An extended PR campaign such as this is only going to exacerbate the distortion of reality.

kristianc 10y ago

As it stands, this doesn't sound dissimilar to America (which also spends billions on making the world love it in the name of soft power)

kitschshrine 10y ago
well, then you probably need reading comprehension classes. the world isn't black and white, it's shades of grey
- kristianc 10y ago
  Trump has proposed exactly the same kind of 30% import tax, is also happy to turn a blind eye to air pollution and has handed over the Department of Education to a billionaire who to all intents and purposes bought the job. Perhaps those American exceptionalism rose tinted sunglasses aren't working so well for you.
caio1982 10y ago
Your argument has a name: tu quoque.
- kristianc 10y ago
  Then that argument is true of the Economist's article too, which explicitly quotes Nye.
dave_sullivan 10y ago
Boo. False equivalency. Can we acknowledge that this is the favored argument by authoritarian propaganda machines and it's a baseless distraction? It has no place here. More: http://www.npr.org/2017/03/17/520435073/trump-embraces-one-of-russias-favorite-propaganda-tactics-whataboutism http://www.npr.org/2017/03/17/520435073/trump-embraces-one-o...
- kristianc 10y ago
  The article explicitly cites Nye and how American concept of soft power is being adopted by authoritarian regimes.

user982 10y ago

Your HN account is singularly focused on demonizing China along every axis.

dang 10y ago

Single-purpose accounts aren't allowed on HN. We've banned this one. Using HN primarily for political and ideological battle is also not allowed here, nationalisms included.

T-A 10y ago

> 30% import tax Where did that number come from? Going by this, http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2016/12/06/import-export-taxes-and-duties-in-china.html http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2016/12/06/import-export-... I would expect the usual 10% for WTO members without other trade agreements. If you add the higher 17% VAT rate to that and round up, I guess you can sort of justify "30%", but that's misleading, since VAT applies to domestic companies too.