2 ms·

"I must be right because anyone who disagrees with me is ignorant or insane"

adamnemecek 10y ago
Can you point out to me a single criticism of Rust that isn't "it's too immature" or a variation thereof (e.g. less code written in it)?
- Sir_Cmpwn 10y ago
  I don't necessarily disagree with you, just with the way you present your point.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  That "it's too immature" is a great, dismissal line given it's incredibly important for choosing a language to write a safe/secure kernel in. My choice against it as main language would be due to lack of assurance technology made for it. With C subset and/or SPARK Ada, I have a pile of tech from formal specifications to static analysis to test generators to assembly certifiers. Add powerful IDE's & ecosystem to it. Then, even if people don't want that, there's regular compilers for what I produce on countless platforms for increased usage opportunities and extra security through hardware diversity/obfuscation. Rust doesn't give me all this. Not just "immature:" nobody working on most of it at all or with enough effort I know it will be there in 1-3 years when I need it. That said, I love and encourage your work on Redox plus these other Rust-based kernels. There's no reason to gripe about them that I see. The posts are good for learning like most kernel dev w/ extra language & safety content on the side. You Redox devs in particular are really rolling on it being safe & practically usable. There's just that the gap between what's achievable on high end with Rust and C/SPARK is the size of the grand canyon. Many PhD's worth of work.
- jeffdavis 10y ago
  How about "it's too immature to properly criticize"? ;-)
  - kibwen 10y ago
    What are your criteria for maturity? I tend to agree that Rust has a ways to go before it's capable of calling itself a world-class implementation, but lots of those aspects (e.g. IDE support) are on this year's roadmap and seeing active development.
    - steveklabnik 10y ago
      Here's a good one in which Rust isn't yet mature enough in this space: this still requires nightly.
    - jeffdavis 10y ago
      My comment was not entirely sincere; I'm very optimistic about rust's future. The grain of truth is that, if you grant that rust is immature, then it's unfair to say that's the only criticism because a lot of problems can be hidden behind immaturity.
- frozenport 10y ago
  237 reasons https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/611811/have_you_used_rust_do_you_prefer_it_over_modern_c/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/611811/have_you_used_r...

Can you point out to me a single criticism of Rust that isn't "it's too immature" or a variation thereof (e.g. less code written in it)?

Sir_Cmpwn 10y ago
I don't necessarily disagree with you, just with the way you present your point.
nickpsecurity 10y ago
That "it's too immature" is a great, dismissal line given it's incredibly important for choosing a language to write a safe/secure kernel in. My choice against it as main language would be due to lack of assurance technology made for it. With C subset and/or SPARK Ada, I have a pile of tech from formal specifications to static analysis to test generators to assembly certifiers. Add powerful IDE's & ecosystem to it. Then, even if people don't want that, there's regular compilers for what I produce on countless platforms for increased usage opportunities and extra security through hardware diversity/obfuscation. Rust doesn't give me all this. Not just "immature:" nobody working on most of it at all or with enough effort I know it will be there in 1-3 years when I need it. That said, I love and encourage your work on Redox plus these other Rust-based kernels. There's no reason to gripe about them that I see. The posts are good for learning like most kernel dev w/ extra language & safety content on the side. You Redox devs in particular are really rolling on it being safe & practically usable. There's just that the gap between what's achievable on high end with Rust and C/SPARK is the size of the grand canyon. Many PhD's worth of work.
jeffdavis 10y ago
How about "it's too immature to properly criticize"? ;-)
- kibwen 10y ago
  What are your criteria for maturity? I tend to agree that Rust has a ways to go before it's capable of calling itself a world-class implementation, but lots of those aspects (e.g. IDE support) are on this year's roadmap and seeing active development.
  - steveklabnik 10y ago
    Here's a good one in which Rust isn't yet mature enough in this space: this still requires nightly.
  - jeffdavis 10y ago
    My comment was not entirely sincere; I'm very optimistic about rust's future. The grain of truth is that, if you grant that rust is immature, then it's unfair to say that's the only criticism because a lot of problems can be hidden behind immaturity.
frozenport 10y ago
237 reasons https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/611811/have_you_used_rust_do_you_prefer_it_over_modern_c/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/611811/have_you_used_r...