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Smart move, the path is wide open for China. The most remembered phrase of the orange demagogue inaugural address was "America first, always". As a non-America

Smart move, the path is wide open for China. The most remembered phrase of the orange demagogue inaugural address was "America first, always". As a non-American I'd argue that "me first" are words that a leader should never say, even when it is what he always believed. I might start learning Mandarin, someday.

vtange 10y ago
As opposed to China? They don't say it, but they have basically ran a "China first" agenda for the last decade or two. Does China maintain a friendly policy toward refugees and minorities? Sure, they do enact policy for the environment, but it's heavily sold on cutting their own smog and air pollution. "Let other countries settle things bilaterally without interference" were China's words originally, not Trump's. One could even say Trump is America's most Chinese president, considering his proposal to build a "Great, great wall" (his words, not mine)[1] and proposal to up America's military by nearly double digits to mimic China's recent years. [2] [1] http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/wild-donald-trump-quotes/14/ http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/wild-donald-trump-quotes/14/ [2] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/04/china-reins-defence-spending-donald-trump-boosts-military-budget/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/04/china-reins-defen...
- diego_moita 10y ago
  As a non-American I have a very different understanding of American role in the world. I don't buy the whole concept of "American exceptionalism". I don't believe that America's actions in the world are moved just by benevolent preoccupations. > they have basically ran a "China first" agenda for the last decade or two I totally agree, but that is what every country, tribe and empire has done for thousands of years. I don't expect anyone to be different. My issue is about how you sell it. Soft power (the theme of the article) comes from the empire sales pitch, from being able to convince others that you are being good when you are protecting your assets. Again: my point is not what you are, is what you sell. And the "art of the deal" president is actually a very bad salesman. This is an overture for the Chinese. No, I don't "trust" China as much as I don't "trust" America.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
david-given 10y ago
I've heard it's a pretty straightforward language --- every syllable is a word in its own right, and multisyllable words are compound words[ * ]; and that the grammar is supposed to be really straightforward, at least for English speakers, with no inflection, SVO sentence order, limited tenses, and sentences made from gluing words together. Unfortunately every written tutorial I've found seems heavily focused around ideograms, which I find completely impossible, so I don't know what it's like in practice. Can any beginner learners comment? (It's also a tonal language, which I am completely unable to pronounce intelligibly. On a trip to Beijing a few years ago I tried to learn a few basic phrases, like 'hello', 'please', 'thankyou', etc. Ha ha fat chance.) [ * ] It can be interesting to use Google Translate to turn an English word into Mandarin, then insert newlines between each ideogram and reverse translate it to see what it is literally. 'Grammar' is 语法, which is 'language law'...
- foldr 10y ago
  >every syllable is a word in its own right, and multisyllable words are compound words[ This is an artifact of the writing system. Mandarin Chinese has multisyllabic words in exactly the same way that e.g. English does. http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3330 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3330
  - nneonneo 10y ago
    Despite the article's enthusiasm for polysyllabic characters, these remain exceedingly rare in day-to-day use, whereas polysyllabic words in English are basically unavoidable. There's no equivalence here. The writing system remains very strongly monosyllabic, in that one character corresponds to one syllable >99% of the time.
    - foldr 10y ago
      The point I was referring to is that the words are not all monosyllabic. The existence or nonexistence of multisyllabic characters is irrelevant. Character != word. https://www.jstor.org/stable/595185?seq=1 https://www.jstor.org/stable/595185?seq=1
gragas 10y ago
>The most remembered phrase of the orange demagogue inaugural address was "America first, always" I feel very good putting America first. Countries that do not protect themselves are exploited and overrun. Always. It has always happened and it always will happen. Do you really think China has good intentions?
- diego_moita 10y ago
  You didn't get my point. It isn't about countries caring or not for their interests, it is about how they sell their interest to others, how do you convince others to side with you. It is about your sales pitch as a country. Every empire pretends to be more than imperialism. Soft power comes from being convincing at it. No, China doesn't have good intentions, as much as the U.S., the British, the Ottomans, Spaniards, French and Romans also didn't. But, still, you are more powerful when you convince others that you are also "good". If America explicitly gives up on even pretending to be good, what is the point of respecting America?
  - gragas 10y ago
    >If America explicitly gives up on even pretending to be good, what is the point of respecting America? Putting your own needs first != bad. I greatly respect those who solve their own problems and have a sense of nationalism, rather than fleeing into other countries.

vtange 10y ago

As opposed to China? They don't say it, but they have basically ran a "China first" agenda for the last decade or two. Does China maintain a friendly policy toward refugees and minorities? Sure, they do enact policy for the environment, but it's heavily sold on cutting their own smog and air pollution. "Let other countries settle things bilaterally without interference" were China's words originally, not Trump's. One could even say Trump is America's most Chinese president, considering his proposal to build a "Great, great wall" (his words, not mine)[1] and proposal to up America's military by nearly double digits to mimic China's recent years. [2] [1] http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/wild-donald-trump-quotes/14/ http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/wild-donald-trump-quotes/14/ [2] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/04/china-reins-defence-spending-donald-trump-boosts-military-budget/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/04/china-reins-defen...

diego_moita 10y ago
As a non-American I have a very different understanding of American role in the world. I don't buy the whole concept of "American exceptionalism". I don't believe that America's actions in the world are moved just by benevolent preoccupations. > they have basically ran a "China first" agenda for the last decade or two I totally agree, but that is what every country, tribe and empire has done for thousands of years. I don't expect anyone to be different. My issue is about how you sell it. Soft power (the theme of the article) comes from the empire sales pitch, from being able to convince others that you are being good when you are protecting your assets. Again: my point is not what you are, is what you sell. And the "art of the deal" president is actually a very bad salesman. This is an overture for the Chinese. No, I don't "trust" China as much as I don't "trust" America.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

david-given 10y ago

I've heard it's a pretty straightforward language --- every syllable is a word in its own right, and multisyllable words are compound words[ * ]; and that the grammar is supposed to be really straightforward, at least for English speakers, with no inflection, SVO sentence order, limited tenses, and sentences made from gluing words together. Unfortunately every written tutorial I've found seems heavily focused around ideograms, which I find completely impossible, so I don't know what it's like in practice. Can any beginner learners comment? (It's also a tonal language, which I am completely unable to pronounce intelligibly. On a trip to Beijing a few years ago I tried to learn a few basic phrases, like 'hello', 'please', 'thankyou', etc. Ha ha fat chance.) [ * ] It can be interesting to use Google Translate to turn an English word into Mandarin, then insert newlines between each ideogram and reverse translate it to see what it is literally. 'Grammar' is 语法, which is 'language law'...

foldr 10y ago
>every syllable is a word in its own right, and multisyllable words are compound words[ This is an artifact of the writing system. Mandarin Chinese has multisyllabic words in exactly the same way that e.g. English does. http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3330 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3330
- nneonneo 10y ago
  Despite the article's enthusiasm for polysyllabic characters, these remain exceedingly rare in day-to-day use, whereas polysyllabic words in English are basically unavoidable. There's no equivalence here. The writing system remains very strongly monosyllabic, in that one character corresponds to one syllable >99% of the time.
  - foldr 10y ago
    The point I was referring to is that the words are not all monosyllabic. The existence or nonexistence of multisyllabic characters is irrelevant. Character != word. https://www.jstor.org/stable/595185?seq=1 https://www.jstor.org/stable/595185?seq=1

gragas 10y ago

>The most remembered phrase of the orange demagogue inaugural address was "America first, always" I feel very good putting America first. Countries that do not protect themselves are exploited and overrun. Always. It has always happened and it always will happen. Do you really think China has good intentions?

diego_moita 10y ago
You didn't get my point. It isn't about countries caring or not for their interests, it is about how they sell their interest to others, how do you convince others to side with you. It is about your sales pitch as a country. Every empire pretends to be more than imperialism. Soft power comes from being convincing at it. No, China doesn't have good intentions, as much as the U.S., the British, the Ottomans, Spaniards, French and Romans also didn't. But, still, you are more powerful when you convince others that you are also "good". If America explicitly gives up on even pretending to be good, what is the point of respecting America?
- gragas 10y ago
  >If America explicitly gives up on even pretending to be good, what is the point of respecting America? Putting your own needs first != bad. I greatly respect those who solve their own problems and have a sense of nationalism, rather than fleeing into other countries.