4 ms·

Getting paid 35k/yr to get abused by some asshole on the city council? Nobody in their right mind would even consider this. I guarantee nobody on their advisor

Getting paid 35k/yr to get abused by some asshole on the city council? Nobody in their right mind would even consider this. I guarantee nobody on their advisory board would sign up for this shit. If you want to live in poverty there are lots of other things you could build on your own that would have a much bigger impact. A much better solution would be to run a job placement service so people actually get paid. I don't see how them adding another layer of bureaucracy is going to help anything.

cjoh 16y ago
I'm on their advisory board, and I'd consider it-- I actually am considering it. The fact is government spends more money than a gaggle of googles. Building a start-up around providing services to government could be an awesome way to both change government and make money. Meaningful work that makes you rich sounds great. But there's only one thing? How do you learn how government spends money? And how do you figure out who is in charge of making those purchasing decisions? After two years at the Sunlight foundation, I'm still not clear on it-- and it's because we're not interacting directly with them. Coming out of Code for America as a hacker'll teach one more about how Government works, how it buys things, and what it needs than just asking customers does. I think for some smart people who can keep their eye on the ball, this could be an amazing opportunity to learn about a market, and then become a player in it in a short few years.
- thwarted 16y ago
  Coming out of Code for America as a hacker'll teach one more about how Government works, how it buys things, and what it needs than just asking customers does. I think for some smart people who can keep their eye on the ball, this could be an amazing opportunity to learn about a market, and then become a player in it in a short few years. Reading http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1379381 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1379381 kind of answered this for me. While I'm sure not every government entity is like that, finding one that isn't, as part of the first step for this, isn't something I'd relish working on.
thaumaturgy 16y ago
> Nobody in their right mind would even consider this. I am. I figure, either you can be part of the problem, or part of the solution. It's so easy to just sit back and complain about the way things are all the time, but it's much more interesting to actually try to change them. 'Sides, it would be a good introduction to dealing with municipal governments, and that could be useful.
- mmt 16y ago
  I figure, either you can be part of the problem, or part of the solution. False dichotomy. It's so easy to just sit back and complain about the way things are all the time, but it's much more interesting to actually try to change them. It may be more interesting to try, but it may not be any more productive. More specifically, the most significant problems I might sit back and complain about are ones that can't be solved with software[1], let alone custom software. The notion of targetting municipal government is suspect to me, as it reeks of the enterprise software model. I may be misinterpretting what they're trying to do, but, if not, it will be threatened by the same dangers, which means that 7 months isn't nearly enough. [1] ..or any technology by itself. I occasionally complain that programmers have a tendency to believe that all (technical) problems can be solved in software, but this goes well beyond that.
  - thaumaturgy 16y ago
    Again, the point isn't to attempt to solve a non-software problem using software, it's to get a guided introduction to dealing with municipal governments.
    - mmt 16y ago
      I guess I missed where that point is outlined, though I admit to not reading all the backstory. The title of the project obviously can't be taken literally, but I expect I'm not the only technical person who would expect the point has something to do with code.
- aaronbrethorst 16y ago
Tamerlin 16y ago
You're right. They're limiting themselves to the bottom of the barrel in web developers, and setting up their schedule around the standard malpractices that lead to the deplorable state of the current IT systems in the first place. The idea that they can spend a month in the host city learning how things will work, and then six months designing & developing a production-ready application that's significant enough to matter is at best laughable. The only projects that succeed are going to be the ones that are too small to make an appreciable difference to anyone -- especially the government. On top of that, they're filtering out exactly the people that they need most: experienced developers and designers. Speaking for myself for example, I would not mind doing something like this in principle, but in reality I can't afford to, because I have a mortgage to pay. I'd also have to put my side business and blow off my karate students for a year. The people that they need have lives. The people that they'll get aren't qualified.

cjoh 16y ago

I'm on their advisory board, and I'd consider it-- I actually am considering it. The fact is government spends more money than a gaggle of googles. Building a start-up around providing services to government could be an awesome way to both change government and make money. Meaningful work that makes you rich sounds great. But there's only one thing? How do you learn how government spends money? And how do you figure out who is in charge of making those purchasing decisions? After two years at the Sunlight foundation, I'm still not clear on it-- and it's because we're not interacting directly with them. Coming out of Code for America as a hacker'll teach one more about how Government works, how it buys things, and what it needs than just asking customers does. I think for some smart people who can keep their eye on the ball, this could be an amazing opportunity to learn about a market, and then become a player in it in a short few years.

thwarted 16y ago
Coming out of Code for America as a hacker'll teach one more about how Government works, how it buys things, and what it needs than just asking customers does. I think for some smart people who can keep their eye on the ball, this could be an amazing opportunity to learn about a market, and then become a player in it in a short few years. Reading http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1379381 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1379381 kind of answered this for me. While I'm sure not every government entity is like that, finding one that isn't, as part of the first step for this, isn't something I'd relish working on.

thaumaturgy 16y ago

> Nobody in their right mind would even consider this. I am. I figure, either you can be part of the problem, or part of the solution. It's so easy to just sit back and complain about the way things are all the time, but it's much more interesting to actually try to change them. 'Sides, it would be a good introduction to dealing with municipal governments, and that could be useful.

mmt 16y ago
I figure, either you can be part of the problem, or part of the solution. False dichotomy. It's so easy to just sit back and complain about the way things are all the time, but it's much more interesting to actually try to change them. It may be more interesting to try, but it may not be any more productive. More specifically, the most significant problems I might sit back and complain about are ones that can't be solved with software[1], let alone custom software. The notion of targetting municipal government is suspect to me, as it reeks of the enterprise software model. I may be misinterpretting what they're trying to do, but, if not, it will be threatened by the same dangers, which means that 7 months isn't nearly enough. [1] ..or any technology by itself. I occasionally complain that programmers have a tendency to believe that all (technical) problems can be solved in software, but this goes well beyond that.
- thaumaturgy 16y ago
  Again, the point isn't to attempt to solve a non-software problem using software, it's to get a guided introduction to dealing with municipal governments.
  - mmt 16y ago
    I guess I missed where that point is outlined, though I admit to not reading all the backstory. The title of the project obviously can't be taken literally, but I expect I'm not the only technical person who would expect the point has something to do with code.
aaronbrethorst 16y ago

Tamerlin 16y ago

You're right. They're limiting themselves to the bottom of the barrel in web developers, and setting up their schedule around the standard malpractices that lead to the deplorable state of the current IT systems in the first place. The idea that they can spend a month in the host city learning how things will work, and then six months designing & developing a production-ready application that's significant enough to matter is at best laughable. The only projects that succeed are going to be the ones that are too small to make an appreciable difference to anyone -- especially the government. On top of that, they're filtering out exactly the people that they need most: experienced developers and designers. Speaking for myself for example, I would not mind doing something like this in principle, but in reality I can't afford to, because I have a mortgage to pay. I'd also have to put my side business and blow off my karate students for a year. The people that they need have lives. The people that they'll get aren't qualified.