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In the threads where we discuss H1B visa holders taking American jobs, can we also consider that American companies are selling their products in countries from

In the threads where we discuss H1B visa holders taking American jobs, can we also consider that American companies are selling their products in countries from where H1B workers come from? Google's Android biggest growth region is India. Why shouldn't then Indians work in Google? Maybe Google should move its headquarters from MV to Bangalore. Alphabet can remain in US. Or another US company, lets say Pepsi, outsources its IT work to an Indian company, Infosys. And everyone in India is drinking Pepsi. Why is it wrong that IT work in Pepsi is done by Infosys? Should India ban Pepsi because Pepsi Inc. has more non-Indians than Indians? I am not surprised that EU is actively fining US companies like Google and Apple, and China does not allow US companies in the first place. And if xenophobic and protectionist polices continue in US, then I am afraid that countries like India will have to do the same like EU or China.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
eanzenberg 10y ago
That's fine, have them open an office in India and hire locally. Ever wonder why they don't on a massive scale?
- dboreham 10y ago
  They do. One of the justifications for the H-1B and similar programs is that it benefits the US economy by having work that could have been performed overseas, done domestically, and moves the associated smart, high taxpaying people inside the country.
- ma2rten 10y ago
  Google has a big office in India. https://qz.com/403654/google-is-doubling-its-headcount-in-hyderabad-heres-how-to-get-hired-there/ https://qz.com/403654/google-is-doubling-its-headcount-in-hy...
- virtuabhi 10y ago
  Yes, I have wondered about that. As I said in the comment, you will see more companies moving out of US if xenophobia and protectionist policies are not contained. Also, if you are software engineer have you ever wondered why your salary is close to $100k rather than, say $50k? Think about this. It might be due to the fact that even after being located in US, your company can sell its good and services all around the world.
- ThrowawayR2 10y ago
  > That's fine, have them open an office in India and hire locally. Ever wonder why they don't on a massive scale? You're clearly unaware of the vast number of development offices in India and China that even rather pedestrian businesses have opened.
bdittmer 10y ago
I'm not really sure what triggered you in this article. This is fraud...it has nothing to do with xenophobia.
- virtuabhi 10y ago
  Well, my comment was on the comment section of any H1B story. The comment section on HN or the news website looks like a "safe space" where people angry at H1B can release their vent up anger and frustration. The comments almost always have nothing to do with actual content of the story but everything about hatred and protectionism.
  - pm90 10y ago
    Yeah personally I wouldn't get involved in it, even though its incredibly xenophobic, even from people who you would otherwise respect. It's much like the hatred so many Americans have against "Illegals" taking all their good jobs and getting all the benefits while not working at all. These kinds of straw men are basically the best way for rich Americans to distract their less affluent brethren while they continue to give themselves tremendous tax breaks and stash all their wealth overseas. (Note: I'm not saying all rich Americans are that way e.g. Bill Gates is most certainly not. I'm thinking more along the Koch network).
justabystander 10y ago
> outsources its IT work to an Indian company, Infosys Infosys was also under scrutiny for the same visa fraud that's mentioned in this same article. They settled out of court for $34 million while claiming they just wanted to avoid "prolonged litigation". But it's just a PR stunt - Infosys' visa fraud is rather well-known, colloquially. While it's an Indian-based company, it is a multinational company that also operates within the United States. It's part of the biggest problem with H-1B visas, in that it hires almost entirely H-1B visa workers with tailored positions and then "hires" the staff out through consulting contracts. It does this to artificially suppress wages while taking a hefty profit. Tata, another Indian multinational company, does the same thing. (http://www.epi.org/blog/new-data-infosys-tata-abuse-h-1b-program/ http://www.epi.org/blog/new-data-infosys-tata-abuse-h-1b-pro...). It's one thing to offshore work to a foreign company with contracts. That ship sailed decades ago, and, for all its faults in execution, it helped a lot of countries build their economies. Including India. But it's another to hire only offshore workers, bring them locally, and then replace local workers with those contracts. There's no justifiable reason if local people can do it - it's just labor and wage exploitation. No one's got a problem with skilled workers migrating and taking jobs. Plenty of people move around the world for that. That mobility is a nice thing. But the H-1B is a system designed to facilitate this migration while protecting industry wages. Yet it's being abused by companies to artificially control wages with fake claims of labor shortage. So it deserves all the scrutiny we can muster. The program should stay. But it needs much more oversight. > And if xenophobic and protectionist polices It's not xenophobic. There's a huge Indian population locally in the US, as well, and many of them dislike H-1B abuse. Countries are supposed to protect their local labor pool and economy or they'll face some very difficult times. That said, there has to be a balance in tariffs and immigration laws for proper trade. > Google's Android biggest growth region is India. Why shouldn't then Indians work in Google? Maybe Google should move its headquarters from MV to Bangalore. Alphabet can remain in US. There's a strong claim for having local offices when companies do a large amount of business locally. Google and many other companies do that. Last year they announced that they're opening a second office in Bangalore. But they also sell to many other countries outside of India. A local office is one thing, but moving headquarters is another. India's economic impact isn't really enough to force the entire company to move. You're also ignoring the fact that countries specialize and then trade. Specialization and trade end up being cheaper in many ways than generalization. It's perfectly normal for countries to have a particular product or service that they're known for. Trade agreements are generally structured so that those countries can protect foreign competition in local specialties, while enabling greater exports with lower tariffs for those specialties. It just so happens that Tata and Infosys grew out of this practice (where they exported labor services). If anything, you're showing a strong nationalist agenda by claiming that only your country should be able to control foreign products while exporting local specialties, and that all foreign companies should use as much local resources as possible on foreign soil just because they profit from your market. It's not xenophobia, but it's certainly a lot closer to it than insisting that companies don't abuse visa programs to avoid paying local market wages. You should probably take a step back and realize that this is a labor and economic issue, and not a cultural/racial issue.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

eanzenberg 10y ago

That's fine, have them open an office in India and hire locally. Ever wonder why they don't on a massive scale?

dboreham 10y ago
They do. One of the justifications for the H-1B and similar programs is that it benefits the US economy by having work that could have been performed overseas, done domestically, and moves the associated smart, high taxpaying people inside the country.
ma2rten 10y ago
Google has a big office in India. https://qz.com/403654/google-is-doubling-its-headcount-in-hyderabad-heres-how-to-get-hired-there/ https://qz.com/403654/google-is-doubling-its-headcount-in-hy...
virtuabhi 10y ago
Yes, I have wondered about that. As I said in the comment, you will see more companies moving out of US if xenophobia and protectionist policies are not contained. Also, if you are software engineer have you ever wondered why your salary is close to $100k rather than, say $50k? Think about this. It might be due to the fact that even after being located in US, your company can sell its good and services all around the world.
ThrowawayR2 10y ago
> That's fine, have them open an office in India and hire locally. Ever wonder why they don't on a massive scale? You're clearly unaware of the vast number of development offices in India and China that even rather pedestrian businesses have opened.

bdittmer 10y ago

I'm not really sure what triggered you in this article. This is fraud...it has nothing to do with xenophobia.

virtuabhi 10y ago
Well, my comment was on the comment section of any H1B story. The comment section on HN or the news website looks like a "safe space" where people angry at H1B can release their vent up anger and frustration. The comments almost always have nothing to do with actual content of the story but everything about hatred and protectionism.
- pm90 10y ago
  Yeah personally I wouldn't get involved in it, even though its incredibly xenophobic, even from people who you would otherwise respect. It's much like the hatred so many Americans have against "Illegals" taking all their good jobs and getting all the benefits while not working at all. These kinds of straw men are basically the best way for rich Americans to distract their less affluent brethren while they continue to give themselves tremendous tax breaks and stash all their wealth overseas. (Note: I'm not saying all rich Americans are that way e.g. Bill Gates is most certainly not. I'm thinking more along the Koch network).

justabystander 10y ago

> outsources its IT work to an Indian company, Infosys Infosys was also under scrutiny for the same visa fraud that's mentioned in this same article. They settled out of court for $34 million while claiming they just wanted to avoid "prolonged litigation". But it's just a PR stunt - Infosys' visa fraud is rather well-known, colloquially. While it's an Indian-based company, it is a multinational company that also operates within the United States. It's part of the biggest problem with H-1B visas, in that it hires almost entirely H-1B visa workers with tailored positions and then "hires" the staff out through consulting contracts. It does this to artificially suppress wages while taking a hefty profit. Tata, another Indian multinational company, does the same thing. (http://www.epi.org/blog/new-data-infosys-tata-abuse-h-1b-program/ http://www.epi.org/blog/new-data-infosys-tata-abuse-h-1b-pro...). It's one thing to offshore work to a foreign company with contracts. That ship sailed decades ago, and, for all its faults in execution, it helped a lot of countries build their economies. Including India. But it's another to hire only offshore workers, bring them locally, and then replace local workers with those contracts. There's no justifiable reason if local people can do it - it's just labor and wage exploitation. No one's got a problem with skilled workers migrating and taking jobs. Plenty of people move around the world for that. That mobility is a nice thing. But the H-1B is a system designed to facilitate this migration while protecting industry wages. Yet it's being abused by companies to artificially control wages with fake claims of labor shortage. So it deserves all the scrutiny we can muster. The program should stay. But it needs much more oversight. > And if xenophobic and protectionist polices It's not xenophobic. There's a huge Indian population locally in the US, as well, and many of them dislike H-1B abuse. Countries are supposed to protect their local labor pool and economy or they'll face some very difficult times. That said, there has to be a balance in tariffs and immigration laws for proper trade. > Google's Android biggest growth region is India. Why shouldn't then Indians work in Google? Maybe Google should move its headquarters from MV to Bangalore. Alphabet can remain in US. There's a strong claim for having local offices when companies do a large amount of business locally. Google and many other companies do that. Last year they announced that they're opening a second office in Bangalore. But they also sell to many other countries outside of India. A local office is one thing, but moving headquarters is another. India's economic impact isn't really enough to force the entire company to move. You're also ignoring the fact that countries specialize and then trade. Specialization and trade end up being cheaper in many ways than generalization. It's perfectly normal for countries to have a particular product or service that they're known for. Trade agreements are generally structured so that those countries can protect foreign competition in local specialties, while enabling greater exports with lower tariffs for those specialties. It just so happens that Tata and Infosys grew out of this practice (where they exported labor services). If anything, you're showing a strong nationalist agenda by claiming that only your country should be able to control foreign products while exporting local specialties, and that all foreign companies should use as much local resources as possible on foreign soil just because they profit from your market. It's not xenophobia, but it's certainly a lot closer to it than insisting that companies don't abuse visa programs to avoid paying local market wages. You should probably take a step back and realize that this is a labor and economic issue, and not a cultural/racial issue.