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StarCraft was a great game but what I never liked was the fact that terrans were incredibly hard to counter. Terrans had 75 minerals missile turrets, 75 minera

StarCraft was a great game but what I never liked was the fact that terrans were incredibly hard to counter. Terrans had 75 minerals missile turrets, 75 minerals vultures that come with 3 mines, far reaching siege tanks, comsat, flying buildings for vision, medics that could heal each other, medics could blind detectors, ghosts could take away energy and protoss shield with EMP, and the science vessel could be very abusive as well (irradiate ability)... A lot of those things got balanced for StarCraft II: medics were replaced by medivacs that cannot heal each other, EMP only takes 100 shield rather than all and area is smaller, turrets are more expensive. Some tricks got replaced by new ones, like using seeker missile on friendly units which seems like a bug to me. The fact that you cannot lower supply depots will be particularly annoying to people that got used to StarCraft II supply depots.

panorama 10y ago
The game is widely considered to be well-balanced, which is in part why the game has prospered on a professional level for so long. From what you've listed, Vultures are the only problematic unit (they're the most cost-efficient unit in the game and it plays an important role in every matchup). If you're curious: Turrets struggle against small units due to their attack type, leaving Terran highly vulnerable against small, mobile Mutalisks in the mid-game. Siege tanks are gas-intensive and immobile in siege mode. Flying buildings' advantage is negligible (Zerg have flying supply depots for that matter). Medics play a very limited role in competitive play: Medic/Marine is sub-optimal against Protoss and Terran, and lately we've found that it doesn't scale well late-game against Zerg too (I find it fascinating that the meta changes dramatically even to this day)! Their blind skill has been used in professional play maybe twice in 15 years. I assume you mean Science Vessels, not Ghosts, can EMP - SVs are gas-intensive, slow, and squishy, but unfortunately are Terran's only effective high-tech unit (Ghosts are expensive and difficult to use well, Battlecruisers are expensive and slow and only see limited use in mirror matchups). On the other hand, SC2 has struggled with balance issues (perhaps still does? I don't follow it any longer). Anyway the point of this isn't to call you out on lack of BW knowledge (very few people like me care about these details anyway), but I wanted to point out potential confirmation bias: SC2 appearing to nerf or remove these problematic units is not an indication that they are problems in Brood War. Merely a coincidence, if I had to guess! :)
- partycoder 10y ago
  True. At the professional level it is balanced, but at lower skill levels it becomes really hard to counter a terran. Especially the spider mine/turret/tank advancing cycle. Mutalisks can be countered with Science vessels's irradiate ability since they're low HP. Sorry, got confused since EMP got moved from Science Vessel to Ghost in SC 2.
- greenhatman 10y ago
  >The game is widely considered to be well-balanced With almost two decades since release, and people are still playing it competitively, it's probably the most balanced game in history so far.
spery 10y ago
I don't really agree with you. What made BroodWar balanced was meta development and map creation that took a long while. Every race had some things that could seem imbalanced and outright crazy. Reaver single scarab killing 20 marines or your entire SCV line, storm nearly killing everything. Plague reducing all army to 1HP, lurkers that wreck havoc. And yet, no single race dominated over all of history. There were times when Terran we're most dominant. Then came Savior and rest of zergs who were suddenly winning everything. Until Bisu's revolution that is... Point being every style had a counter, you just had to make it work (with builds and pure skill).
Chathamization 10y ago
That's funny. The last time I played (probably about '05-'06) Terrans were the only ones I could consistently defeat (using the Protoss and carrier rushes). That's because at the time they tended to make mass siege tank and vulture armies (which are slow, and have no anti-air ability). My opponents were considerably more experienced with the game (I hadn't played in some years, and tactics had changed considerably), and I'd get slaughtered in most matches that weren't Protoss vs. Terran (never found a great strategy for any of the others). Still, it was interesting to find that you could still use unconventional strategies to win. Personally, I think Starcraft (like many games) is the most fun and interesting when you get together a bunch of inexperienced players. People aren't just trying to implement the same cookie cutter strategies, they're experimenting with the game and trying out different strategies.
- partycoder 10y ago
  That's why I also mentioned turret in the mix. Skilled usage of goliaths with missile upgrade can counter carriers. Carrier is the last unit in the tech tree, it's hard to call it a rush. Terrans can find about your carriers using comsat scans, especially because in Starcraft 1 comsats can only scan.
  - Chathamization 10y ago
    Yeah, a good player could stop it with proper scouting. Against average players I've had a lot of success, though - once they find your main base, they focus tanks and vultures on it and stop scouting other areas. They almost never seem interested in scouting other areas. If you build up carriers in secret on a side base, they don't realize what's coming, and by the time they finish off your main base you have a sizeable fleet. Of course they'll try to rush your expansion and pump out goliaths and turrets, but by that time it's usually too late. Even a handful of turrets and goliaths aren't going to give 8-10 fully upgraded carriers much trouble, and their turrets and goliaths are going to have simply too much space to cover (all of the production at the original base, but all the minerals coming from expansions). With a bit of skill and using the terrain to your advantage, it's pretty easy to pick them apart. At least, that's what worked for me. I guess everyone needs to find a strategy that suites them. If you find Terrans to be the best race, play as Terrans.

panorama 10y ago

The game is widely considered to be well-balanced, which is in part why the game has prospered on a professional level for so long. From what you've listed, Vultures are the only problematic unit (they're the most cost-efficient unit in the game and it plays an important role in every matchup). If you're curious: Turrets struggle against small units due to their attack type, leaving Terran highly vulnerable against small, mobile Mutalisks in the mid-game. Siege tanks are gas-intensive and immobile in siege mode. Flying buildings' advantage is negligible (Zerg have flying supply depots for that matter). Medics play a very limited role in competitive play: Medic/Marine is sub-optimal against Protoss and Terran, and lately we've found that it doesn't scale well late-game against Zerg too (I find it fascinating that the meta changes dramatically even to this day)! Their blind skill has been used in professional play maybe twice in 15 years. I assume you mean Science Vessels, not Ghosts, can EMP - SVs are gas-intensive, slow, and squishy, but unfortunately are Terran's only effective high-tech unit (Ghosts are expensive and difficult to use well, Battlecruisers are expensive and slow and only see limited use in mirror matchups). On the other hand, SC2 has struggled with balance issues (perhaps still does? I don't follow it any longer). Anyway the point of this isn't to call you out on lack of BW knowledge (very few people like me care about these details anyway), but I wanted to point out potential confirmation bias: SC2 appearing to nerf or remove these problematic units is not an indication that they are problems in Brood War. Merely a coincidence, if I had to guess! :)

partycoder 10y ago
True. At the professional level it is balanced, but at lower skill levels it becomes really hard to counter a terran. Especially the spider mine/turret/tank advancing cycle. Mutalisks can be countered with Science vessels's irradiate ability since they're low HP. Sorry, got confused since EMP got moved from Science Vessel to Ghost in SC 2.
greenhatman 10y ago
>The game is widely considered to be well-balanced With almost two decades since release, and people are still playing it competitively, it's probably the most balanced game in history so far.

spery 10y ago

I don't really agree with you. What made BroodWar balanced was meta development and map creation that took a long while. Every race had some things that could seem imbalanced and outright crazy. Reaver single scarab killing 20 marines or your entire SCV line, storm nearly killing everything. Plague reducing all army to 1HP, lurkers that wreck havoc. And yet, no single race dominated over all of history. There were times when Terran we're most dominant. Then came Savior and rest of zergs who were suddenly winning everything. Until Bisu's revolution that is... Point being every style had a counter, you just had to make it work (with builds and pure skill).

Chathamization 10y ago

That's funny. The last time I played (probably about '05-'06) Terrans were the only ones I could consistently defeat (using the Protoss and carrier rushes). That's because at the time they tended to make mass siege tank and vulture armies (which are slow, and have no anti-air ability). My opponents were considerably more experienced with the game (I hadn't played in some years, and tactics had changed considerably), and I'd get slaughtered in most matches that weren't Protoss vs. Terran (never found a great strategy for any of the others). Still, it was interesting to find that you could still use unconventional strategies to win. Personally, I think Starcraft (like many games) is the most fun and interesting when you get together a bunch of inexperienced players. People aren't just trying to implement the same cookie cutter strategies, they're experimenting with the game and trying out different strategies.

partycoder 10y ago
That's why I also mentioned turret in the mix. Skilled usage of goliaths with missile upgrade can counter carriers. Carrier is the last unit in the tech tree, it's hard to call it a rush. Terrans can find about your carriers using comsat scans, especially because in Starcraft 1 comsats can only scan.
- Chathamization 10y ago
  Yeah, a good player could stop it with proper scouting. Against average players I've had a lot of success, though - once they find your main base, they focus tanks and vultures on it and stop scouting other areas. They almost never seem interested in scouting other areas. If you build up carriers in secret on a side base, they don't realize what's coming, and by the time they finish off your main base you have a sizeable fleet. Of course they'll try to rush your expansion and pump out goliaths and turrets, but by that time it's usually too late. Even a handful of turrets and goliaths aren't going to give 8-10 fully upgraded carriers much trouble, and their turrets and goliaths are going to have simply too much space to cover (all of the production at the original base, but all the minerals coming from expansions). With a bit of skill and using the terrain to your advantage, it's pretty easy to pick them apart. At least, that's what worked for me. I guess everyone needs to find a strategy that suites them. If you find Terrans to be the best race, play as Terrans.