4 ms·

Home schooled kids largely miss out on lot of things. The quality of education (surprisingly) is irrelevant here. The major thing that school enables is sociali

by sytelus 10y ago

Home schooled kids largely miss out on lot of things. The quality of education (surprisingly) is irrelevant here. The major thing that school enables is socialization, ability to interact with other kids, form friendships, face/become adversaries, collaborate, strategize interactions and so on. All these social aspects would play much larger role in their lives than any formal subject they learned. In ancient times, this would been naturally enabled as parents go on doing their duties and kids in the village play/work together all day. In modern times, school is usually the only available close approximation.

wernercd 10y ago
Being homeschooled doesn't mean the kid(s) don't get socialized. There is more than one way to interact with other people in formative years... I have close family members who have been home-schooled and they are very well rounded adults.
js2 10y ago
We home school our kids and I cannot disagree more strongly. I'm not sure where this myth that home schooled kids miss out on socialization comes from. We don't lock our children up at home. My daughter (16) is outside the home for: piano, spanish, voice lessons, horse riding, and acting. She currently helps TA kids at a local community theater. This is not to mention the time she spends with her friends. My son (14) is outside the home for: piano, spanish, soccer. And also to play with his friends. They also both regularly take extra curricular classes. Just one example: http://ccee.unc.edu/youth-new/classes/bolin-creek/ http://ccee.unc.edu/youth-new/classes/bolin-creek/ I went to public school. My kids are much more socialable than I was at their age. The social environment at public school is nothing like the real world and I'm glad to have my kids skip it.
- yequalsx 10y ago
  I notice that the activities you describe your kids doing are, for the most part, structured. How do you know they are socially adept or sociable? Will they freak out once on their own? I have 15 nieces and nephews from 2 sisters. Both home schooled through elementary school and one did it for all of k-12. The k-12 homeschooled kids were done a great disservice by their mom. She has b.s. degree in accounting and is in no way qualified to teach kids. I guess my pint is that our anecdotes cancel each other out but I'm curious to know why you think homeschooling is benefitting your kids. Why do you think you are qualified to teach them the variety of subjects one learns in high school. Why do do you think they are more successful being homeschooled?
  - js2 10y ago
    > the activities you describe your kids doing are, for the most part, structured It wasn't an exhaustive list of their days. > How do you know they are socially adept or sociable? You'll have to take my word for it. > Why do you think you are qualified to teach them the variety of subjects one learns in high school We're both college educated. My wife has a masters degree. We use outside/online resources to fill in subjects outside our expertise or that we don't have time to learn ourselves first. My daughter is taking a college level chemistry class. Next year (11th grade) she'll be taking classes at community college. We have both kids take standardized tests each year to measure their progress against their peers. But honestly, I don't know what your HS teachers were like, but I think I had maybe two competent teachers in my HS. It's not a high bar to beat, no that we'd stoop so low.
    - yequalsx 10y ago
      I know you believe they are sociable. But how do you know that when seemingly most 9f their activities are structured? Would they adapt well if the structure wasn't there? I'm assuming you've never taught high school. I haven't either. I do have a lot of experience teaching in higher ed though. I was recently paired with a high school teacher and visited his classroom. I doubt I could teach high school. It's easy to denigrate them but apparently they didn't do too bad with you. Personally I think think it's absurd for soneone to think that they can teach without any training. There are outliers and seemingly you are one of them. Though you'll never know if you were a benefit or hindrance to your childrens' education. They are clearly successful so it's bit important whether or not it is because of your teaching or in spite of it. One thing is certain though. Your experience is not normative. What you've done has been successful but is it replicable for anything beyond a small percent of families? I'm skeptical.
      - js2 10y ago
        > I know you believe they are sociable. But how do you know You keep asking this. It's an absurd question. I'm their parent. I see them every day. I watch them interact with other kids. I see my son stand up for the next door neighbor younger brother against his older brother. I see my daughter keep the peace at a sleep over party with a dozen friends and wildly different personalities. Besides that, you imply that public school confers sociability to children, an assertion with which I disagree. I'll go further: my kids have friends who are both "schoolers" and homeschoolers, and as a rule, it's the home school kids who are more polite, more sociable, more well adjusted. > but apparently they didn't do too bad with you I have done okay in spite of high school, not because of it. They were the worst years of my life. > Personally I think think it's absurd for soneone to think that they can teach without any training. My cousin is a special ed teacher, and an excellent one at that. She teaches in D.C. I couldn't do what she does, and I haven't claimed that anyone could. Home schooling is a different situation. It requires dedication on the part of the parent (like doing anything well of course), but it's not that hard. There is a wide variety in how parents approach home schooling, from unschooling at one end, to very disciplined like a traditional school taught at home at the other end. We're somewhere in the middle. Our kids have a lesson plan each year. They have a daily check list of items. We leave it up to them to manage their day. Here's today's: http://imgur.com/bRYpGQr http://imgur.com/bRYpGQr I'm writing from experience, not just about my own kids, but having family who are teachers and having been involved in the home school community as well as reflecting about my own experience in public school and that of my siblings. I never claimed home school was for everybody, but I think you over estimate its difficulty and give way too much credit to public schooling. I think you underestimate how much time is wasted in public school, and completely discount things like bullying and cliques. My K-12 school years were an awful social environment filled with horrible kids and mostly disinterested teachers, and were nothing like the real world. > They are clearly successful so it's bit important whether or not it is because of your teaching or in spite of it. This is condescending to the point that I feel like you're trolling. I have nothing else to say.
- ryanwaggoner 10y ago
  Wife and I were both home-schooled, as were significant chunks of our social groups. Not saying it never makes sense, but I will do a LOT to avoid that being the best option for my kids.
  - js2 10y ago
    We're not zealots. And not that it matters, but our decision to homeschool has nothing to do with religion. Both kids went to Montessori and my daughter started first grade public school, where she went from loving school to starting to lose her joy of learning. My wife decided she could do a better job, and she has. I can't speak to anyone else's experience, but for our family it was the right decision, and I'd place my kids' education and socialization against anyone's.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      If a parent has the time, home-schooling can be a real boon to a child's education. Consider: I can't teach a class of 30 as well as a trained teacher. Perhaps I can't tutor one-on=one as well as a trained teacher. But I can tutor my one child, better than a trained teacher can teach them in a class of 30. That's the real comparison. In a 5-hour elementary school day, if the teacher did nothing but tutor students serially they'd each get 10 minutes. I can beat that in the first half-hour of a home-schooled day. Its no wonder that home-schooled kids often outstrip their public-school mates. My buddy's 14-year-old was ready for college (admitted to State college) because of this. It wasn't just that he was very smart and motivated. Its about the attention and monitoring that can be accomplished. A century ago there was another name for home-schooling: it was called 'schooling'. Until public education got invented, it was pretty much the only way.
      - js2 10y ago
        Yes, I agree with this. And still it doesn't work for all parent/child combinations. We know a few folks who home schooled for a few years but then the kids went back to public school. Sometimes the parent and child didn't have good chemistry. Or one kid wanted to run track and there weren't good opportunities outside school. Or the parent dedided they weren't suited for it. We've been lucky. We don't need two incomes. My wife as it turns out is a good teacher and she enjoys it. Our kids are good students and enjoy home schooling. We live in a community with tons of educational resources available outside the home.
- gozur88 10y ago
  >I'm not sure where this myth that home schooled kids miss out on socialization comes from. From the public school establishment, mostly. I'm sure you can find worst case examples of kids who've spent the last five years in the family living room, but I've never met home-schooled children who weren't better socialized than their public school counterparts. The big drawback of traditional schooling is the children are all the same age, which prevents them from modeling their behavior on more mature children.
wonder_er 10y ago
I was home schooled the whole way (k-12) and have missed out on nothing. None of my peers know I was home schooled, and when they do find out, they all react with surprise. My next line is, > I know, hard to tell, right? Ever since I stopped tucking my jeans into my socks, no one guesses that I was home schooled!" My point is this: I believe you are experiencing a selection bias. When someone that you meet is very poorly socialized, you might dig a little to try to understand why. If this person was homeschooled, you add a tally to the "homeschooled && poorly socialized" count. Repeat enough times, and you might have many, many marks in that box. The problem is, when you meet a well-socialized person, you are less likely to _also_ dig and find out if that person was home schooled or not. It may also surprise you to learn that in many home schooling communities, especially today, there is heavy emphasis on "socializing", and the kids can often learn things that public schoolers cannot. As an example, I was able to begin working when I turned 16. I didn't work tons, but I was available to work in hours other kids were not, so I was always working around adults. I quickly refined how to interact with adults and learn from them. Public schools segregate kids by age, so the only adults they interact with are teachers/administrators, not adults in more "peer" relationships.
lliamander 10y ago
As someone who spent all of my formative years in relatively good public schools, and had mostly positive experiences all the way through, I would actually have to say that socialization is one of the strongest aspects of home-schooling. The peer dominated socialization of public schools can quickly degenerate into "Lord of the Flies" type behavior, especially as class sizes grow. My hypothesis is that with home schooling, assuming that the kids aren't cloistered in the home, the result is simply that they have more exposure to seeing adults interacting with each other as adults, and therefore are more accustomed to that form of interacting. When I was young the home schooled kids did seem a bit off, but by the time I got to college the trend seemed to that they were consistently more mature and "ready" for the adult world than average. That said, I would not tell people to home school unless they were prepared for it. Kids can still have positive experiences at public school; it just depends on the kid. EDIT: for clarity
nibs 10y ago
Socialization is for pets. I just ran around the forest and played Runescape for my single digit formative years. I did not learn to read until I was 11. To call my childhood homeschooling would be offensive (to me), school is the whole thing I was trying to avoid. I was home though. I played sports and chess with other people my age and older. I missed nothing but the cynicical, pluralistic burnout one gets attending school. And as an adult, I would not say I am missing anything social skills wise, other than that pathological desire to be normal school people have. Mimesis begets external validation begets emptiness.

by sytelus 10y ago

wernercd 10y ago

Being homeschooled doesn't mean the kid(s) don't get socialized. There is more than one way to interact with other people in formative years... I have close family members who have been home-schooled and they are very well rounded adults.

js2 10y ago

We home school our kids and I cannot disagree more strongly. I'm not sure where this myth that home schooled kids miss out on socialization comes from. We don't lock our children up at home. My daughter (16) is outside the home for: piano, spanish, voice lessons, horse riding, and acting. She currently helps TA kids at a local community theater. This is not to mention the time she spends with her friends. My son (14) is outside the home for: piano, spanish, soccer. And also to play with his friends. They also both regularly take extra curricular classes. Just one example: http://ccee.unc.edu/youth-new/classes/bolin-creek/ http://ccee.unc.edu/youth-new/classes/bolin-creek/ I went to public school. My kids are much more socialable than I was at their age. The social environment at public school is nothing like the real world and I'm glad to have my kids skip it.

yequalsx 10y ago
I notice that the activities you describe your kids doing are, for the most part, structured. How do you know they are socially adept or sociable? Will they freak out once on their own? I have 15 nieces and nephews from 2 sisters. Both home schooled through elementary school and one did it for all of k-12. The k-12 homeschooled kids were done a great disservice by their mom. She has b.s. degree in accounting and is in no way qualified to teach kids. I guess my pint is that our anecdotes cancel each other out but I'm curious to know why you think homeschooling is benefitting your kids. Why do you think you are qualified to teach them the variety of subjects one learns in high school. Why do do you think they are more successful being homeschooled?
- js2 10y ago
  > the activities you describe your kids doing are, for the most part, structured It wasn't an exhaustive list of their days. > How do you know they are socially adept or sociable? You'll have to take my word for it. > Why do you think you are qualified to teach them the variety of subjects one learns in high school We're both college educated. My wife has a masters degree. We use outside/online resources to fill in subjects outside our expertise or that we don't have time to learn ourselves first. My daughter is taking a college level chemistry class. Next year (11th grade) she'll be taking classes at community college. We have both kids take standardized tests each year to measure their progress against their peers. But honestly, I don't know what your HS teachers were like, but I think I had maybe two competent teachers in my HS. It's not a high bar to beat, no that we'd stoop so low.
  - yequalsx 10y ago
    I know you believe they are sociable. But how do you know that when seemingly most 9f their activities are structured? Would they adapt well if the structure wasn't there? I'm assuming you've never taught high school. I haven't either. I do have a lot of experience teaching in higher ed though. I was recently paired with a high school teacher and visited his classroom. I doubt I could teach high school. It's easy to denigrate them but apparently they didn't do too bad with you. Personally I think think it's absurd for soneone to think that they can teach without any training. There are outliers and seemingly you are one of them. Though you'll never know if you were a benefit or hindrance to your childrens' education. They are clearly successful so it's bit important whether or not it is because of your teaching or in spite of it. One thing is certain though. Your experience is not normative. What you've done has been successful but is it replicable for anything beyond a small percent of families? I'm skeptical.
    - js2 10y ago
      > I know you believe they are sociable. But how do you know You keep asking this. It's an absurd question. I'm their parent. I see them every day. I watch them interact with other kids. I see my son stand up for the next door neighbor younger brother against his older brother. I see my daughter keep the peace at a sleep over party with a dozen friends and wildly different personalities. Besides that, you imply that public school confers sociability to children, an assertion with which I disagree. I'll go further: my kids have friends who are both "schoolers" and homeschoolers, and as a rule, it's the home school kids who are more polite, more sociable, more well adjusted. > but apparently they didn't do too bad with you I have done okay in spite of high school, not because of it. They were the worst years of my life. > Personally I think think it's absurd for soneone to think that they can teach without any training. My cousin is a special ed teacher, and an excellent one at that. She teaches in D.C. I couldn't do what she does, and I haven't claimed that anyone could. Home schooling is a different situation. It requires dedication on the part of the parent (like doing anything well of course), but it's not that hard. There is a wide variety in how parents approach home schooling, from unschooling at one end, to very disciplined like a traditional school taught at home at the other end. We're somewhere in the middle. Our kids have a lesson plan each year. They have a daily check list of items. We leave it up to them to manage their day. Here's today's: http://imgur.com/bRYpGQr http://imgur.com/bRYpGQr I'm writing from experience, not just about my own kids, but having family who are teachers and having been involved in the home school community as well as reflecting about my own experience in public school and that of my siblings. I never claimed home school was for everybody, but I think you over estimate its difficulty and give way too much credit to public schooling. I think you underestimate how much time is wasted in public school, and completely discount things like bullying and cliques. My K-12 school years were an awful social environment filled with horrible kids and mostly disinterested teachers, and were nothing like the real world. > They are clearly successful so it's bit important whether or not it is because of your teaching or in spite of it. This is condescending to the point that I feel like you're trolling. I have nothing else to say.
ryanwaggoner 10y ago
Wife and I were both home-schooled, as were significant chunks of our social groups. Not saying it never makes sense, but I will do a LOT to avoid that being the best option for my kids.
- js2 10y ago
  We're not zealots. And not that it matters, but our decision to homeschool has nothing to do with religion. Both kids went to Montessori and my daughter started first grade public school, where she went from loving school to starting to lose her joy of learning. My wife decided she could do a better job, and she has. I can't speak to anyone else's experience, but for our family it was the right decision, and I'd place my kids' education and socialization against anyone's.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    If a parent has the time, home-schooling can be a real boon to a child's education. Consider: I can't teach a class of 30 as well as a trained teacher. Perhaps I can't tutor one-on=one as well as a trained teacher. But I can tutor my one child, better than a trained teacher can teach them in a class of 30. That's the real comparison. In a 5-hour elementary school day, if the teacher did nothing but tutor students serially they'd each get 10 minutes. I can beat that in the first half-hour of a home-schooled day. Its no wonder that home-schooled kids often outstrip their public-school mates. My buddy's 14-year-old was ready for college (admitted to State college) because of this. It wasn't just that he was very smart and motivated. Its about the attention and monitoring that can be accomplished. A century ago there was another name for home-schooling: it was called 'schooling'. Until public education got invented, it was pretty much the only way.
    - js2 10y ago
      Yes, I agree with this. And still it doesn't work for all parent/child combinations. We know a few folks who home schooled for a few years but then the kids went back to public school. Sometimes the parent and child didn't have good chemistry. Or one kid wanted to run track and there weren't good opportunities outside school. Or the parent dedided they weren't suited for it. We've been lucky. We don't need two incomes. My wife as it turns out is a good teacher and she enjoys it. Our kids are good students and enjoy home schooling. We live in a community with tons of educational resources available outside the home.
gozur88 10y ago
>I'm not sure where this myth that home schooled kids miss out on socialization comes from. From the public school establishment, mostly. I'm sure you can find worst case examples of kids who've spent the last five years in the family living room, but I've never met home-schooled children who weren't better socialized than their public school counterparts. The big drawback of traditional schooling is the children are all the same age, which prevents them from modeling their behavior on more mature children.

wonder_er 10y ago

I was home schooled the whole way (k-12) and have missed out on nothing. None of my peers know I was home schooled, and when they do find out, they all react with surprise. My next line is, > I know, hard to tell, right? Ever since I stopped tucking my jeans into my socks, no one guesses that I was home schooled!" My point is this: I believe you are experiencing a selection bias. When someone that you meet is very poorly socialized, you might dig a little to try to understand why. If this person was homeschooled, you add a tally to the "homeschooled && poorly socialized" count. Repeat enough times, and you might have many, many marks in that box. The problem is, when you meet a well-socialized person, you are less likely to _also_ dig and find out if that person was home schooled or not. It may also surprise you to learn that in many home schooling communities, especially today, there is heavy emphasis on "socializing", and the kids can often learn things that public schoolers cannot. As an example, I was able to begin working when I turned 16. I didn't work tons, but I was available to work in hours other kids were not, so I was always working around adults. I quickly refined how to interact with adults and learn from them. Public schools segregate kids by age, so the only adults they interact with are teachers/administrators, not adults in more "peer" relationships.

lliamander 10y ago

As someone who spent all of my formative years in relatively good public schools, and had mostly positive experiences all the way through, I would actually have to say that socialization is one of the strongest aspects of home-schooling. The peer dominated socialization of public schools can quickly degenerate into "Lord of the Flies" type behavior, especially as class sizes grow. My hypothesis is that with home schooling, assuming that the kids aren't cloistered in the home, the result is simply that they have more exposure to seeing adults interacting with each other as adults, and therefore are more accustomed to that form of interacting. When I was young the home schooled kids did seem a bit off, but by the time I got to college the trend seemed to that they were consistently more mature and "ready" for the adult world than average. That said, I would not tell people to home school unless they were prepared for it. Kids can still have positive experiences at public school; it just depends on the kid. EDIT: for clarity

nibs 10y ago

Socialization is for pets. I just ran around the forest and played Runescape for my single digit formative years. I did not learn to read until I was 11. To call my childhood homeschooling would be offensive (to me), school is the whole thing I was trying to avoid. I was home though. I played sports and chess with other people my age and older. I missed nothing but the cynicical, pluralistic burnout one gets attending school. And as an adult, I would not say I am missing anything social skills wise, other than that pathological desire to be normal school people have. Mimesis begets external validation begets emptiness.