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Pointing out that western civilization did something isn't the same as claiming only people of western decent is capable of doing something. Christopher Columb

Pointing out that western civilization did something isn't the same as claiming only people of western decent is capable of doing something. Christopher Columbus, was a westerner and went to America. That is just stating a fact of something that happened. That doesn't imply that if Christopher Columbus had black skin it would have been an impossible feat for him to accomplish. Isaac Newton would not have been prevented from inventing calculus if he had slanted eyes. "Are you saying they were just simply looking at effects without trying to understand causes" As a matter of fact, yes. Chinese astronomer e.g. as far as I know, recorded lots of details about the movements of celestial bodies, but never attempted to device laws governing these movements. The greeks did with their Ptolemaic world view even if they were screwed up. It gave a starting point for Copernicus and Kepler to improve on. "are you saying their thinking wasn't scientific" Yes, I am. There is no racist undertone there, as much as you like to hunt for it. This was a product of the society and traditions they lived in, not their skin color, slant of eyes or whatever you might want to make a big deal about. "This of the people who brought us writing and mathematics" Should get your facts straight before you try to belittle me. Mathematics isn't simply numerals. You can do mathematics just fine without indian/arabic numerals. More important for science, it was the greeks who made the first formal mathematical proofs. And who do you presume are these people who "gave" us writing? Are you assuming writing came to Europe from India, China, Egypt or something?

iam-you 10y ago
I'm not presuming anything. writing came from Egypt, likely mathematics too, and where do you think the greeks get their knowledge from? Egypt. Obviously, they were creative in their own right, but that doesn't change the fact of where this stuff originated.
- jernfrost 10y ago
  Show me some links, quotes, references or whatever that suggests the Egyptians did math before the Sumerians or Babylonians then. As far as I know the Greeks got knowledge both from Babylonians and Egyptians. Math like writing was developed independently many places. There is no proof to my knowledge that Egyptians was the original source of all this. When you make such an explicit claim, I think you ought to be able to back it up with something. To my knowledge there was nothing special with Egyptian writing or mathematics. When I read about ancient math, I find much more interesting things to read about in the Babylonians and Sumerians. We still got the 60-based number system from the babylonians in our geometry and division of time. The next stage in mathematics was clearly the Greeks, which advance ancient mathematics to a new level, with e.g. the way they did proofs etc. Also the idea that an idea singularly originated in one place, strikes me as a rather simplistic understanding how how science and technology works. People almost never come up with an idea exclusively in a vacuum. One always builds on existing ideas in many increments and often many people derive at similar conclusions independently. If one looks at e.g. the light bulb or steam engine, it is very hard to point to one particular man or country having invented the light bulb. Too many people were involved in an infinite amount of small improvements. It makes a lot more sense to talk about where did significant scientific progress happen. Who advanced the state of something the most. That often makes more sense than talking about who invented or discovered something. It should not be very controversial that the advancement of modern science and mathematics has mainly been a western phenomenon. I don't mean to imply that people of western origin are superior, but that historical developments and accidents have culminated in giving a strong advantage to western nations from about 1500s onwards. There are many good things about western culture I think one should not have to be ashamed of. The willingness for western culture to take a critical look at itself shows one of its strengths. I can think of any other civilization so ready to point out ones own weaknesses and wrongdoings as western civilization. Understanding your weakness is the key to growth and improvement.

iam-you 10y ago

I'm not presuming anything. writing came from Egypt, likely mathematics too, and where do you think the greeks get their knowledge from? Egypt. Obviously, they were creative in their own right, but that doesn't change the fact of where this stuff originated.

jernfrost 10y ago
Show me some links, quotes, references or whatever that suggests the Egyptians did math before the Sumerians or Babylonians then. As far as I know the Greeks got knowledge both from Babylonians and Egyptians. Math like writing was developed independently many places. There is no proof to my knowledge that Egyptians was the original source of all this. When you make such an explicit claim, I think you ought to be able to back it up with something. To my knowledge there was nothing special with Egyptian writing or mathematics. When I read about ancient math, I find much more interesting things to read about in the Babylonians and Sumerians. We still got the 60-based number system from the babylonians in our geometry and division of time. The next stage in mathematics was clearly the Greeks, which advance ancient mathematics to a new level, with e.g. the way they did proofs etc. Also the idea that an idea singularly originated in one place, strikes me as a rather simplistic understanding how how science and technology works. People almost never come up with an idea exclusively in a vacuum. One always builds on existing ideas in many increments and often many people derive at similar conclusions independently. If one looks at e.g. the light bulb or steam engine, it is very hard to point to one particular man or country having invented the light bulb. Too many people were involved in an infinite amount of small improvements. It makes a lot more sense to talk about where did significant scientific progress happen. Who advanced the state of something the most. That often makes more sense than talking about who invented or discovered something. It should not be very controversial that the advancement of modern science and mathematics has mainly been a western phenomenon. I don't mean to imply that people of western origin are superior, but that historical developments and accidents have culminated in giving a strong advantage to western nations from about 1500s onwards. There are many good things about western culture I think one should not have to be ashamed of. The willingness for western culture to take a critical look at itself shows one of its strengths. I can think of any other civilization so ready to point out ones own weaknesses and wrongdoings as western civilization. Understanding your weakness is the key to growth and improvement.