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Are you also against case sensitive file systems? Otherwise you can end up with two files that have the "same" name - eg. anne.jpg and Anne.jpg). Does normaliza

by hawski 10y ago

Are you also against case sensitive file systems? Otherwise you can end up with two files that have the "same" name - eg. anne.jpg and Anne.jpg). Does normalization cover such a case?

drdaeman 10y ago
I think, the problem with Unicode normalization is, input methods are (well, conceptually, at least) meant to produce text, not binary. If filesystems are using binary data for filenames, there can be a case when is really no way to address a file by typing its name, even if you can type in that language. This isn't an issue for case sensitivity or alike.
- zrm 10y ago
  Programs often allow you to type arbitrary binary values using a keyboard, either by holding a keyboard control key and typing the numeric value, or prefixing it with '\'.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >If filesystems are using binary data for filenames, there can be a case when is really no way to address a file by typing its name, even if you can type in that language You could do that trivially in UNIX since forever.
  - drdaeman 10y ago
    Don't know about other UNIXes, but at least on GNU/Linux, neither IMEs nor filesystems are working with text data - it's all binary strings (with a few restrictions, like unacceptability of NULs). The only place where those binary strings are converted to text is when they're rendered (and this may cause some encoding-related oddities). So, sure one can do that. I would've actually preferred for identifiers to be Unicode text strings.
- snuxoll 10y ago
  Filesystems themselves treating file names and paths at bits of binary data is the right way to do it, normalization shouldn't be handled directly by the filesystem as it adds complexity and duplication of effort. Ideally, the VFS layer should be handling all this garbage.
hyperpape 10y ago
For ascii, I would gladly do this There may be edge cases outside of the English language that I'm not aware of. I am somewhat willing to accept the value of case sensitivity in identifiers for programming languages (though it's often related to the verbosity of the language, as in Java: "Foo foo = new Foo()"), but not in file naming. Of course, I realize that the ship has sailed, and we're stuck with case sensitivity in file systems.

by hawski 10y ago

Are you also against case sensitive file systems? Otherwise you can end up with two files that have the "same" name - eg. anne.jpg and Anne.jpg). Does normalization cover such a case?

drdaeman 10y ago

I think, the problem with Unicode normalization is, input methods are (well, conceptually, at least) meant to produce text, not binary. If filesystems are using binary data for filenames, there can be a case when is really no way to address a file by typing its name, even if you can type in that language. This isn't an issue for case sensitivity or alike.

zrm 10y ago
Programs often allow you to type arbitrary binary values using a keyboard, either by holding a keyboard control key and typing the numeric value, or prefixing it with '\'.
coldtea 10y ago
>If filesystems are using binary data for filenames, there can be a case when is really no way to address a file by typing its name, even if you can type in that language You could do that trivially in UNIX since forever.
- drdaeman 10y ago
  Don't know about other UNIXes, but at least on GNU/Linux, neither IMEs nor filesystems are working with text data - it's all binary strings (with a few restrictions, like unacceptability of NULs). The only place where those binary strings are converted to text is when they're rendered (and this may cause some encoding-related oddities). So, sure one can do that. I would've actually preferred for identifiers to be Unicode text strings.
snuxoll 10y ago
Filesystems themselves treating file names and paths at bits of binary data is the right way to do it, normalization shouldn't be handled directly by the filesystem as it adds complexity and duplication of effort. Ideally, the VFS layer should be handling all this garbage.

hyperpape 10y ago

For ascii, I would gladly do this There may be edge cases outside of the English language that I'm not aware of. I am somewhat willing to accept the value of case sensitivity in identifiers for programming languages (though it's often related to the verbosity of the language, as in Java: "Foo foo = new Foo()"), but not in file naming. Of course, I realize that the ship has sailed, and we're stuck with case sensitivity in file systems.