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Who gives a shit? It is almost always Americans making such statements, obsessed as they are about being number one. If Chine gets richer and more technological

Who gives a shit? It is almost always Americans making such statements, obsessed as they are about being number one. If Chine gets richer and more technologically advance that would be good for them and good for us westerners. It is not a zero sum game. Although to be realistic I don't think China will ever outcompete the US. Not because I don't want them to, but simply because so many fundamentals count in Americas favor and against China. China is facing a demographic catastrophe. The US can easily grow its population with immigration and has plenty of land and natural resources to do so.

crimsonalucard 10y ago
Nothing wrong with worrying and wanting your home country to be the best either. Worrying leads to motivation which leads to competition which benefits everyone.
contingencies 10y ago
I agree with the non zero-sum point, however... China is facing a demographic catastrophe. Strongly disagree. The view on the ground in China is great. Almost everyone has their material needs exceeded, many sectors of infrastructure are second to none, education and internationalization of tastes is increasing, and the society is generally very safe. E-vehicles and e-commerce are everywhere. Rent a bicycle for nothing. Visit the tropics, Himalayas, desert or snow with a cheap domestic flight. Cuisine is arguably the most extensive in the world. Mobile payments are ubiquitous. Internet is cheap to free and literally you can get a signal anywhere. Yes, of course like anywhere it's not perfect, but it's really a far cry from America's stagnant and elitist education system, crumbling or monopolistically privatized infrastructure (eg. transport, medicine), and widespread opiate, gun and race problems. (FYI: minimum wage in most Chinese cities for an unskilled foreigner with any kind of get up and go is 200CNY/hr (~USD$28/hr) these days... a great many western workers are on less than half of that, and would do very well to migrate.) so many fundamentals count in Americas favor I would like to hear what these are supposed to be. Having elite universities doesn't count if you rent them out to all comers, default English doesn't count if more people speak it overseas, VC doesn't count if it's easier to get elsewhere, and land isn't needed if your population is already happy to urbanize with extreme density. China owns the world's supply chain and manufacturing, has a highly efficient centralized form of government that can get huge or long term projects done without recourse to political terms, and leads the world in output and deployment scale of renewable energy systems (hydro, solar), modern transport infrastructure, robotics, internet, mobile payment and e-vehicles. Those are some pretty big fundamentals, too. From my perspective all the US really has are systemic global financial and communications surveillance capabilities and a big fat army. Their diplomatic trajectory is nothing to write home about, either.
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  > (FYI: minimum wage in most Chinese cities for an unskilled foreigner with any kind of get up and go is 200CNY/hr (~USD$28/hr) these days... a great many western workers are on less than half of that, and would do very well to migrate.) Quoting wages is meaningless if you don't also mention cost of living.
  - contingencies 10y ago
    Depends on location and expectations, generally speaking in second or third tier cities usually 5000/month outgoings is comfortable, ie. breakeven from 25 hours/month (6 hours/week).
- IIAOPSW 10y ago
  >China is facing a demographic catastrophe. you didn't refute that. you just said "life on the ground today is good." That's why its called a cliff. Things are pretty good right up to the moment you fall off. >FYI: minimum wage in most Chinese cities for an unskilled foreigner with any kind of get up and go is 200CNY/hr But that's not the same thing as minimum wage. Many many Chinese people earn less than that. When you're a Chinese person you can't just hit up your mate on wechat for some bullshit English teaching job whenever you want beer money.
  - contingencies 10y ago
    There's really no need to refute a statement which goes directly against sustained personal observation, especially when it is made without producing any actual evidence. Obviously not everyone earns the same, then again local people tend to have more money than even wealthy foreigners at the high end, and at the low end at least tend to benefit from free housing, familial support networks, and do not have to fund international travel to maintain ties to home. Furthermore, downvoting because you don't agree with someone is considered bad form.
PhasmaFelis 10y ago
> Who gives a shit? It is almost always Americans making such statements, obsessed as they are about being number one. Are you guys seriously not getting the joke? I don't usually buy into the stereotype that Hacker News is utterly humorless, but you're not making it easy.

crimsonalucard 10y ago

Nothing wrong with worrying and wanting your home country to be the best either. Worrying leads to motivation which leads to competition which benefits everyone.

contingencies 10y ago

I agree with the non zero-sum point, however... China is facing a demographic catastrophe. Strongly disagree. The view on the ground in China is great. Almost everyone has their material needs exceeded, many sectors of infrastructure are second to none, education and internationalization of tastes is increasing, and the society is generally very safe. E-vehicles and e-commerce are everywhere. Rent a bicycle for nothing. Visit the tropics, Himalayas, desert or snow with a cheap domestic flight. Cuisine is arguably the most extensive in the world. Mobile payments are ubiquitous. Internet is cheap to free and literally you can get a signal anywhere. Yes, of course like anywhere it's not perfect, but it's really a far cry from America's stagnant and elitist education system, crumbling or monopolistically privatized infrastructure (eg. transport, medicine), and widespread opiate, gun and race problems. (FYI: minimum wage in most Chinese cities for an unskilled foreigner with any kind of get up and go is 200CNY/hr (~USD$28/hr) these days... a great many western workers are on less than half of that, and would do very well to migrate.) so many fundamentals count in Americas favor I would like to hear what these are supposed to be. Having elite universities doesn't count if you rent them out to all comers, default English doesn't count if more people speak it overseas, VC doesn't count if it's easier to get elsewhere, and land isn't needed if your population is already happy to urbanize with extreme density. China owns the world's supply chain and manufacturing, has a highly efficient centralized form of government that can get huge or long term projects done without recourse to political terms, and leads the world in output and deployment scale of renewable energy systems (hydro, solar), modern transport infrastructure, robotics, internet, mobile payment and e-vehicles. Those are some pretty big fundamentals, too. From my perspective all the US really has are systemic global financial and communications surveillance capabilities and a big fat army. Their diplomatic trajectory is nothing to write home about, either.

PhasmaFelis 10y ago
> (FYI: minimum wage in most Chinese cities for an unskilled foreigner with any kind of get up and go is 200CNY/hr (~USD$28/hr) these days... a great many western workers are on less than half of that, and would do very well to migrate.) Quoting wages is meaningless if you don't also mention cost of living.
- contingencies 10y ago
  Depends on location and expectations, generally speaking in second or third tier cities usually 5000/month outgoings is comfortable, ie. breakeven from 25 hours/month (6 hours/week).
IIAOPSW 10y ago
>China is facing a demographic catastrophe. you didn't refute that. you just said "life on the ground today is good." That's why its called a cliff. Things are pretty good right up to the moment you fall off. >FYI: minimum wage in most Chinese cities for an unskilled foreigner with any kind of get up and go is 200CNY/hr But that's not the same thing as minimum wage. Many many Chinese people earn less than that. When you're a Chinese person you can't just hit up your mate on wechat for some bullshit English teaching job whenever you want beer money.
- contingencies 10y ago
  There's really no need to refute a statement which goes directly against sustained personal observation, especially when it is made without producing any actual evidence. Obviously not everyone earns the same, then again local people tend to have more money than even wealthy foreigners at the high end, and at the low end at least tend to benefit from free housing, familial support networks, and do not have to fund international travel to maintain ties to home. Furthermore, downvoting because you don't agree with someone is considered bad form.

PhasmaFelis 10y ago

> Who gives a shit? It is almost always Americans making such statements, obsessed as they are about being number one. Are you guys seriously not getting the joke? I don't usually buy into the stereotype that Hacker News is utterly humorless, but you're not making it easy.