4 ms·

Really? This is common knowledge. Just go read the book -- Marked: Race, Crime and Finding Work in an Era of Mass Incarceration. Why pretend like being black

by tabeth 10y ago

Really? This is common knowledge. Just go read the book -- Marked: Race, Crime and Finding Work in an Era of Mass Incarceration. Why pretend like being black isn't a severe disadvantage in terms of almost every metric you can think of? Failing to acknowledge reality just perpetuates inequity. Sorry, but I'm not sugar coating reality for felons, white or black. People saying "you'll be fine" are just lying, full-stop. You will not be fine. You may be able to succeed, as many ex-felons have (which is really just survivorship bias as many felons stop looking for work all together), but your success will pale in comparison compared to the alternate self where you were not a felon. The discrimination against felons in the United States is borderline a human rights violation. I wonder how many people in this thread have actually talked to felons who are looking for a job. - http://thecrimereport.s3.amazonaws.com/2/fb/e/2362/criminal_stigma_race_crime_and_unemployment.pdf http://thecrimereport.s3.amazonaws.com/2/fb/e/2362/criminal_... - https://thinkprogress.org/a-black-college-student-has-the-same-chances-of-getting-a-job-as-a-white-high-school-dropout-b7639607fdf1#.sm40skwnr https://thinkprogress.org/a-black-college-student-has-the-sa... - https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2011/dec/15/study-shows-ex-offenders-have-greatly-reduced-employment-rates/ https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2011/dec/15/study-shows... In any case, if you have evidence suggesting that a felony doesn't ridiculously reduce your employment prospects and earning potential (among other things), I'd love to see it.

ConvictDev 10y ago
This sucks to hear, but probably true. Meeting me in person, never would you ever consider that I've been in any trouble with the law at all. Knowing that the rest of my life could very well be an immense struggle is a pretty shitty feeling.. but I need to hear it.
- tabeth 10y ago
  I'm sorry about your situation, but I think the people telling you "it'll be fine" are creating a reality you're not going to see. That being said, you can still see success in your career (with tech, primarily) that exceed most non-felon people in the United States in terms of wages. However, when you get to this point, you'll realize that you would've succeeded even more had you not been a felon. Anyway, I digress. Some notes from talking to hiring managers at my company: 1. I suspect HR just passes on felons directly during the application phase. What this means for you is that you need to bypass this. So if you pursue tech, networking is going to become super crucial for you. 2. Something like crime would prove to be a tie-breaker if things are hard to judge. Given the lack of objectivity during tech interviews, this will put you at a disadvantage. In order to get your foot in the door, I would try to a "big fish in a small pond." Meaning, apply at smaller companies, non-profits, etc. Places where tech isn't the primary focus and show value. 3. I assume you've seen this site [1]. I was reading an article a long time ago and saw it referenced. Hopefully it can be of use to you. 4. What I would strongly recommend is just becoming as good as you can, building your network as indicated in (1) and just contract and freelance. You know much better than I do. The discrimination against you for being a felon (even if it's non-violent) is offensive. [1] https://exoffenders.net/ https://exoffenders.net/
  - ConvictDev 10y ago
    I see what you're saying. I'm hoping and praying for a deal where I don't get the convictions at all. That would quiet all my worries. It's a definite chance, but I'm planning for the worst. I will definitely take into account everything you said. Still, I have a slimmer of hope that over time, when the charges (or convictions) are 7-10+ years old, and depending on where I'm living at the time, I could see just as much success as anyone else, felon or not. Surely if a guy has very strong technical skills, great people skills, and valuable connections, the convictions could become a non-issue over time since he is valuable otherwise. But, we will see. Thanks for your advice :).
    - Spooky23 10y ago
      Hopefully you have a good attorney. Make sure to demonstrate that you have ties to the community. Get letters from friends, teachers, relatives, coworkers, etc tonget in front of the judge and prosecutor. You sound like someone who got caught up in something. Show that regret and accept responsibility. I haven't been through this, but I know people who have... good luck.
Spooky23 10y ago
My point is that a felony conviction is a massive barrier, period. Saying that a white person with such a conviction is no big deal is ludicrous.
- tabeth 10y ago
  Sure. That'd be relevant if I ever made that claim. In fact, I said the opposite: "You will not be fine." (re: white and black felons).
  - gtirloni 10y ago
    "The short answer is: if you're a minority, yes. If you're white, no" You may want to re-read what you typed again. Perhaps you meant something else.
    - tabeth 10y ago
      I guess you didn't read the next sentence? I never claimed it's no big deal. I simply stated an empirical reality. And yes, I've already provided evidence on how your race will affect your earning potential, even as a felon. Given that white felons may have better opportunities than blacks with college degrees, being a white felon could be as "bad" as being a black college graduate. Take it as you will. If you have evidence contradicting mine I'd love to read it.

by tabeth 10y ago

ConvictDev 10y ago

This sucks to hear, but probably true. Meeting me in person, never would you ever consider that I've been in any trouble with the law at all. Knowing that the rest of my life could very well be an immense struggle is a pretty shitty feeling.. but I need to hear it.

tabeth 10y ago
I'm sorry about your situation, but I think the people telling you "it'll be fine" are creating a reality you're not going to see. That being said, you can still see success in your career (with tech, primarily) that exceed most non-felon people in the United States in terms of wages. However, when you get to this point, you'll realize that you would've succeeded even more had you not been a felon. Anyway, I digress. Some notes from talking to hiring managers at my company: 1. I suspect HR just passes on felons directly during the application phase. What this means for you is that you need to bypass this. So if you pursue tech, networking is going to become super crucial for you. 2. Something like crime would prove to be a tie-breaker if things are hard to judge. Given the lack of objectivity during tech interviews, this will put you at a disadvantage. In order to get your foot in the door, I would try to a "big fish in a small pond." Meaning, apply at smaller companies, non-profits, etc. Places where tech isn't the primary focus and show value. 3. I assume you've seen this site [1]. I was reading an article a long time ago and saw it referenced. Hopefully it can be of use to you. 4. What I would strongly recommend is just becoming as good as you can, building your network as indicated in (1) and just contract and freelance. You know much better than I do. The discrimination against you for being a felon (even if it's non-violent) is offensive. [1] https://exoffenders.net/ https://exoffenders.net/
- ConvictDev 10y ago
  I see what you're saying. I'm hoping and praying for a deal where I don't get the convictions at all. That would quiet all my worries. It's a definite chance, but I'm planning for the worst. I will definitely take into account everything you said. Still, I have a slimmer of hope that over time, when the charges (or convictions) are 7-10+ years old, and depending on where I'm living at the time, I could see just as much success as anyone else, felon or not. Surely if a guy has very strong technical skills, great people skills, and valuable connections, the convictions could become a non-issue over time since he is valuable otherwise. But, we will see. Thanks for your advice :).
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    Hopefully you have a good attorney. Make sure to demonstrate that you have ties to the community. Get letters from friends, teachers, relatives, coworkers, etc tonget in front of the judge and prosecutor. You sound like someone who got caught up in something. Show that regret and accept responsibility. I haven't been through this, but I know people who have... good luck.

Spooky23 10y ago

My point is that a felony conviction is a massive barrier, period. Saying that a white person with such a conviction is no big deal is ludicrous.

tabeth 10y ago
Sure. That'd be relevant if I ever made that claim. In fact, I said the opposite: "You will not be fine." (re: white and black felons).
- gtirloni 10y ago
  "The short answer is: if you're a minority, yes. If you're white, no" You may want to re-read what you typed again. Perhaps you meant something else.
  - tabeth 10y ago
    I guess you didn't read the next sentence? I never claimed it's no big deal. I simply stated an empirical reality. And yes, I've already provided evidence on how your race will affect your earning potential, even as a felon. Given that white felons may have better opportunities than blacks with college degrees, being a white felon could be as "bad" as being a black college graduate. Take it as you will. If you have evidence contradicting mine I'd love to read it.