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Flow is JavaScript (with type annotations) while Typescript is an entirely different language that needs to compile to JavaScript. You do not need any source ma

by z3t4 10y ago

Flow is JavaScript (with type annotations) while Typescript is an entirely different language that needs to compile to JavaScript. You do not need any source maps for Flow as it just replace the type annotations with spaces. So you get to eat the cookie and keep it, while with Typescript you eat the cookie and lock yourself in.

jstarks 10y ago
What's an example of a TypeScript program where erasing the type information won't produce valid ES6? I had thought Flow and TypeScript were the same in this regard, but I am not an expert.
- evmar 10y ago
  TypeScript supports ES7 features, for example. It also has a few language-local quirks (like parameter properties, described https://www.typescriptlang.org/docs/handbook/classes.html https://www.typescriptlang.org/docs/handbook/classes.html ). I find the grandparent argument pretty unconvincing though. People writing Flow are generally using JSX or ES modules (the Flow docs recommend the latter, for example), both of which require a transpiler like Babel to be used in a browser anyway.
WhitneyLand 10y ago
No, this is hyperbole and misleading. Follow their roadmap and stated direction. They have always been committed to aligning with standards and whenever ES adopts new functionality they gravitate to it's lead. They will never drift off to some mutation that isolates you from the JS ecosystem or its benefits.
- wiredearp 10y ago
  If you look up "embrace, extend and extinguish" in the textbook, you will see Microsoft mentioned in the first sentence [1]. If you are old enough to remember Internet Explorer, you've already seen how this works. Consider then that static types do in fact extend JS and perhaps you'll see why this is not so reassuring after all. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
  - BoorishBears 10y ago
    In 2017 blurting out EEE every time MS does something good is spreading FUD. Typescript is an open language anyways, there is nothing to extinguish
  - WhitneyLand 10y ago
    I appreciate you standing up to bad behavior of companies. The thing is that was a long time ago in a industry where things change very quickly. MS has for a while now been opening more of its own systems, embracing linux, following standards instead going proprietary etc. I'm not saying they've found Jesus, it's mostly pragmatic. A few new leaders have found that this approach simply works better and is less douchey at the same time. So I would say let go of the EEE era. There is lots of bad behavior still going on that is a greater threat. They could benefit from your energy.
  - mizzle-mo 10y ago
    As an employee, I can tell you that the company culture has completely changed. I came in to MS a few months before Windows 7 released. I was just about to quit, when Nadella took over. I decided to wait it out and see. I am glad I did. EEE died a long time ago. It was pretty much gone under Balmer, although we still didn't really play nice with others. Nadella on the other hand came in, started mending fences with other companies that we had previously ignored, or even had some hostility towards. Let me contrast some differences. Balmer -> Gave all employees a Windows Phone and got pissed if he saw an employee with a competitors phone. I even saw him pretend he was stomping on an iphone at a Company Meeting. Nadella -> Put out a video from himself stating "Unless you work on certain parts of the Windows team, use whatever device want. Balmer -> Had Office for IOS and Android mostly feature complete and wouldn't release it. Nadella -> Released it quickly after becoming CEO. You are insane if you think EEE is still going on. That was over like 10. I'm going to skip Balmer as I am sure you can imagine, these are not things he would have done. Right now Visual Studio for Mac is in preview. We purchased Xamarin and as far as I know it is now free for everyone except Enterprise. In the last release of Visual Studio, we shipped Chrome as an optional addon. Released Visual Studio code which is open source, built on open source products from GitHub and Google Chromium. Open sourced .NET and made it cross platform. This also enabled us to release PowerShell as open source. Added Bash on Ubuntu on Windows to Windows 10 by collaborating with Canonical. Seriously? Let that sink in @wiredearp. You can now run native command line tools in REAL linux running on Windows. Invited the Angular team from Google to get a sneak peek at future plans for TypeScript. After the saw it they dropped AtScript and used TypeScript to build Angular (formally known as Angular 2). It is now the preferred language to consume it as well. SharePoint, the product I work on will soon open source our new app model which now runs on a standard open source web stack. Webpack, gulp, React, all accounted for. The static types in TypeScript add value, they weren't added as part of some scheme so later we can... what? I can't even imagine a nefarious end game. No disrespect intended at all, but if you think this is the Microsoft of the Netscape era, you seriously haven't been paying attention.
johnfn 10y ago
This is completely untrue. If you follow the progress of TS, you'll see they are completely committed to only adding features that will end up in JS proper. Time and time again they have refused to add features because they aren't part of Ecmascript.
- nojvek 10y ago
  Making Typescript work in pure js files with commented types is a requested feature. I have absolutely no doubt that it will get implemented sooner or later. Typescript + vscode team pay great attention to the community. If you want to see it happen, this is the issue to vote on: https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/issues/9694 https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/issues/9694

by z3t4 10y ago

jstarks 10y ago

What's an example of a TypeScript program where erasing the type information won't produce valid ES6? I had thought Flow and TypeScript were the same in this regard, but I am not an expert.

evmar 10y ago
TypeScript supports ES7 features, for example. It also has a few language-local quirks (like parameter properties, described https://www.typescriptlang.org/docs/handbook/classes.html https://www.typescriptlang.org/docs/handbook/classes.html ). I find the grandparent argument pretty unconvincing though. People writing Flow are generally using JSX or ES modules (the Flow docs recommend the latter, for example), both of which require a transpiler like Babel to be used in a browser anyway.

WhitneyLand 10y ago

No, this is hyperbole and misleading. Follow their roadmap and stated direction. They have always been committed to aligning with standards and whenever ES adopts new functionality they gravitate to it's lead. They will never drift off to some mutation that isolates you from the JS ecosystem or its benefits.

wiredearp 10y ago
If you look up "embrace, extend and extinguish" in the textbook, you will see Microsoft mentioned in the first sentence [1]. If you are old enough to remember Internet Explorer, you've already seen how this works. Consider then that static types do in fact extend JS and perhaps you'll see why this is not so reassuring after all. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
- BoorishBears 10y ago
  In 2017 blurting out EEE every time MS does something good is spreading FUD. Typescript is an open language anyways, there is nothing to extinguish
- WhitneyLand 10y ago
  I appreciate you standing up to bad behavior of companies. The thing is that was a long time ago in a industry where things change very quickly. MS has for a while now been opening more of its own systems, embracing linux, following standards instead going proprietary etc. I'm not saying they've found Jesus, it's mostly pragmatic. A few new leaders have found that this approach simply works better and is less douchey at the same time. So I would say let go of the EEE era. There is lots of bad behavior still going on that is a greater threat. They could benefit from your energy.
- mizzle-mo 10y ago
  As an employee, I can tell you that the company culture has completely changed. I came in to MS a few months before Windows 7 released. I was just about to quit, when Nadella took over. I decided to wait it out and see. I am glad I did. EEE died a long time ago. It was pretty much gone under Balmer, although we still didn't really play nice with others. Nadella on the other hand came in, started mending fences with other companies that we had previously ignored, or even had some hostility towards. Let me contrast some differences. Balmer -> Gave all employees a Windows Phone and got pissed if he saw an employee with a competitors phone. I even saw him pretend he was stomping on an iphone at a Company Meeting. Nadella -> Put out a video from himself stating "Unless you work on certain parts of the Windows team, use whatever device want. Balmer -> Had Office for IOS and Android mostly feature complete and wouldn't release it. Nadella -> Released it quickly after becoming CEO. You are insane if you think EEE is still going on. That was over like 10. I'm going to skip Balmer as I am sure you can imagine, these are not things he would have done. Right now Visual Studio for Mac is in preview. We purchased Xamarin and as far as I know it is now free for everyone except Enterprise. In the last release of Visual Studio, we shipped Chrome as an optional addon. Released Visual Studio code which is open source, built on open source products from GitHub and Google Chromium. Open sourced .NET and made it cross platform. This also enabled us to release PowerShell as open source. Added Bash on Ubuntu on Windows to Windows 10 by collaborating with Canonical. Seriously? Let that sink in @wiredearp. You can now run native command line tools in REAL linux running on Windows. Invited the Angular team from Google to get a sneak peek at future plans for TypeScript. After the saw it they dropped AtScript and used TypeScript to build Angular (formally known as Angular 2). It is now the preferred language to consume it as well. SharePoint, the product I work on will soon open source our new app model which now runs on a standard open source web stack. Webpack, gulp, React, all accounted for. The static types in TypeScript add value, they weren't added as part of some scheme so later we can... what? I can't even imagine a nefarious end game. No disrespect intended at all, but if you think this is the Microsoft of the Netscape era, you seriously haven't been paying attention.

johnfn 10y ago

This is completely untrue. If you follow the progress of TS, you'll see they are completely committed to only adding features that will end up in JS proper. Time and time again they have refused to add features because they aren't part of Ecmascript.

nojvek 10y ago
Making Typescript work in pure js files with commented types is a requested feature. I have absolutely no doubt that it will get implemented sooner or later. Typescript + vscode team pay great attention to the community. If you want to see it happen, this is the issue to vote on: https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/issues/9694 https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/issues/9694